The Blog of
TEAM WORK EXCELLENCE
TEAM WORK EXCELLENCE
Skills, Tools, and More to Improve Leaders, Teams, and Cultures |
Episode Summary
Tim Sweet welcomes Julie Freedman Smith back to the show. Julie, the creator and founder of Parent-Break online community, and Tim have a discussion about the feeling pervading people’s lives and work-lives today. They break down why there is a sense of malaise and where the fear stems from.
About Julie Freedman-Smith
Julie Freedman Smith is the creator/founder of Parent–Break, an online community providing time and space for parents to connect with themselves and each other, to offer guidance, and to acknowledge the parenting challenges while celebrating the successes. Author, Blogger, Podcast Host and Parenting Expert, Julie Freedman Smith has been guiding parents across North America for 20+ years. Julie also enjoys practising and teaching Tai Chi and working as a professional choral singer and clinician. Contact Tim Sweet | Team Work Excellence: Contact Julie Freedman-Smith | Author, Blogger, Podcast Host and Parenting Expert: Transcript Tim Sweet: We've been going through the motions. Not everything. Not everybody, not all the time. In aspects of our life, certain people have been going through the motions, I'd say a lot of people have been going through the motions. And that's why when they wake up that they're at a point where I feel its absence. They know something needs to change. Then the question comes, Where's my foothold? I'd like to ask you some questions. Do you consider yourself the kind of person that gets things done? Are you able to take a vision and transform that into action? Are you able to align others towards that vision and get them moving to create something truly remarkable? If any of these describe you, then you, my friend, are a leader. And this show is all about and all for you. Welcome to the Sweet on Leadership podcast. Welcome to the Sweet on Leadership Podcast, where we unlock the secrets of the most influential, trusted and impactful leaders in business today so you can become your best version of a leader. And now your host, in the pandemic he wanted to pick up a new skill and chose hair colorist, Tim Sweet. Tim Sweet: Hey, Julie, thanks for joining me again. This is great. I'm so excited to talk to you one more time. So it's interesting that over the last few weeks, our conversations have sort of gravitated towards the same space. And what's been happening in my world is really an influx of people that suddenly are feeling a bit of malaise and are ready to take on some new challenges, but are struggling with how do they get started. So I thought we could talk about that today. Julie: That sounds great. I'm hearing the same thing. I'm hearing that from parents about their kids and I'm hearing that from parents about themselves. So I think it's pretty universal and it's not surprising. So it's a great place to start. Tim Sweet: In the parenting world when you're dealing with parents, what are some of the reasons that people are finding it difficult to get moving? Julie: This is just my perception, but I feel like there's just a drag, like just people, I don't know, don't feel like they've got to get up and go. I think there's a little bit of hesitation about what's coming, fear of where Covid's going to lead us moving forward. And I think everybody's just exhausted from the last two years of everything we've been going through and pushing forward, pushing forward, pushing forward. And now there's no push. And I don't think that's abnormal because I think there's got to be these lulls. You know, there's a season for spring and there's a season of fall and there's all these seasons. But it does feel like this lag is pretty pervasive. Tim Sweet: Yeah. I can't remember what the term is exactly, but it's people have been operating at, you know, peak, running on adrenaline and now, you know, you can only do that for so long when you're living in this push, push, push state, it feels like we're pushing rope sometimes. It doesn't feel like we're drawn into things. We're really forcing ourselves through this experience and having to dig deep to get there. Julie: Yeah, and I think it's overcoming inertia in a way, right? It's just like, ugh, how do I get myself started? Because maybe if I can get myself started, we can move forward. So I'm hoping to talk about that today. I also, neither of us are psychologists, nor do we ever claim to be, but I was reading a really interesting article in the New York Times on Sunday about the fact that there is so much sadness and overwhelm, and it's not surprising, like it's not necessarily a crisis because there are a lot of feelings left over from two years of this. And it's not unreasonable that our bodies are feeling that sadness and that fatigue. Interesting to think about. Okay, here's a feeling. And then how are we going to find things to inspire us to move forward? Tim Sweet: I mean, there's most certainly this low-level anxiety or depression that people are exposed to because there's been a lot of uncertainty, and sadness, and it's just so ubiquitous right now. We've come to accept it, have pushed through it, but now it's just sitting there like noise coming out of a set of old speakers, that we've just grown to kind of accept it as that. The record scratch that comes. Julie: The fuzz in the background. Tim Sweet: Yeah, yeah, fuzz in the background. And would you say that the challenges that parents are facing now are bigger than they were in the past? Julie: Oh, my gosh. I don't know how we answer that question because I wasn't in the past. Were you? Tim Sweet: I mean, bigger than they were two years ago or three years ago. Are they meatier challenges or are they really the same? What I'm asking: does the hill feel bigger to climb? Julie: Oh, I am, presume that the hill feels gigantic because of all the stuff that was there two years ago, this feels like a throwback to the last set of conversations that we had. All the stuff that was there two years ago is still here and now there's something piled on top, right? But I also think there's a whole layer of worry for parents. I'm worried that my kids missed out. I'm worried that they missed out socially. I'm worried that academically they're going to be falling behind. And so the worry adds another level, right? And so sometimes it's can we take that worry and put it aside and just focus on what we're doing here? Because if you're spending so much energy in the worry, we don't have the energy to devote to the new. Tim Sweet: We're kind of putting a bunch of energy into the friction that's there rather than the solution itself. It's kind of just maintaining that reaction to the noise. If you're riding in a car, maybe your wheels are misaligned and you're spending a whole bunch of your energy on the wheel and maybe the rubber that's on the tires in just constantly making these sort of adjustments that are just suboptimal. You're constantly drifting towards the right, so you got to keep a hand on the left. Yes, it's moving you forward, but it's really not efficient. Julie: Yeah, exactly. And your mind is trapped there. How are you finding this with your leadership clients? Tim Sweet: One of the most interesting things is we have teams of all sorts. We have teams that have been together forever. We have teams that have formed and that are new. But what is most interesting to me is a lot of where we're gaining traction is getting right back to basics. It's pretty standard things that teams need to accomplish, which over the last three years have kind of been thrown out or ignored. Basics in communication, basics in relationship building, basics in trust building, conceptualizing one's, you know, amount of choice in a process or system dealing with how overwhelmed we are with the little things that are happening. And it all starts to manifest as kind of a feeling of fatigue. But I would say fatigue is probably not as accurate as - and I'll use this in a very specific way - resignation, saying I'm resigned to the fact that this is just what work feels like now. And yeah, not so much resignation in terms of we talk about the great resignation in terms of people leaving their jobs. But I just mean sort of the great acceptance that it's going to just be, it's going to just be tough. There's a lot of questions about why try to get out of it. And that need to say, you know, am I capable of something different? And I think a lot of the reasons for that is people were running on adrenaline and they were trying to make things better. And then they kept getting hit from the side. And we would try to improve something over here. And maybe we thought we were kind of getting a handle on it. We're moving through Covid. We don't really know how to handle it. And then all of a sudden whack, they get slapped and everything changes again and another challenge comes up. We thought we had a light at the end of the tunnel and then it changes. And so again, it's this trying to get people into a state where they see choice, hope, they feel empowered. Julie: Possibility, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tim Sweet: And it doesn't feel complex once we get there. But even if we've got the answers, even if we're saying, you know, I could really try something in this area of my career or this area of my role, then the question comes, Well, how do I get started? There is a lot of, or I would say an extra layer of resistance than that would experience with clients three years ago. Julie: Yeah, for sure. The way you were talking about it made me think of this idea of there's a feeling and feelings are quite transient and we spend a lot of time teaching kids, Yeah, you have a feeling it's coming through your body and that feeling is going to be here and then it's going to go. And yet what I hear you saying is that those feelings have now almost been glommed onto a person's identity. So this feeling is now here, it's static. And so part of it is, is there a possibility for a new identity? Is there a way for us to imagine ourselves without that glommy feeling? What might that look like and how? And even if we can just do that for a small amount of time, we can maybe find our way into moving forward and see where we go. Tim Sweet: That acceptance is a big part of this, I think, and I think we should really think about that. Again, we're not psychologists, but they often talk about what's your range of highs and lows and do you understand how elastic you are in your own mood? And we have to be aware of if that mood begins to close and if we become less reactive or if the set point, if our median level of happiness begins to slip to one side or the other. I think we can use a similar sort of model on capacity for change for organizations and capacity for change in individuals. And what we've seen here is that through disappointment, through fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, people have shut in a little bit and they're protecting a little bit. And so the challenge for creating change, creating innovation, creating momentum is just that little bit more sticky. And their capacity or their willingness or their excitement around change has moved, I would say, to the more resistant side of things. Julie: Right? So there's that courage, that willingness to be hurt again or to be disappointed again. Can we find that? Tim Sweet: I think so. And when we look at how much change we've undergone in the last two and a half years, I mean, we have been, really the business community or other organizational entities or whatever, there really should be quite impressed with just how much change - and I'm not saying all of it's positive - but I mean, there have been massive, massive shifts and people rallied and they made big, big changes and they strode into the unknown not knowing what this would really mean. And we're finding some of that out right now. And I think even then didn't exactly know all the good and all the bad that would come out of new ways of working and new challenges and what happens when you create different types of options. And we don't just adhere to traditional ideas of what it means to work and, you know, pull a 9 to 5 and get paid. And what is the agreement, the transaction between employer and employee, et cetera? A huge amount of change. And so this is kind of like change fatigue on a grand scale and at the same time being tremendously personal and protective. I think it is a byproduct of people also - perhaps this is one aspect of it - isolating. And so change now has been made very personal and is much more granular than perhaps it was before, or at least it's, the change is promised on a wide organizational level but then when it comes down to it, it's individuals that are having to change and they may not feel terribly supported or aligned with, you know, the overall movement. Tim Sweet: And so in the business sense, that's where we have it's a much higher lift because it's kind of like, well, what are you going to do tomorrow? Not what are we going to do and are we going to team around this? But now individually, people are hanging back a little bit. And if individuals hang back, then teams hang back. And if teams hang back, then organizations hang back. And there seems to be a lot more disconnect between setting that large vision for change and what is the individual actually going to do. So, I mean, we're banging around with a number of different factors here. We've talked about fatigue and we've talked about how is this change carried through the organization. We've talked, you know, I think there's still more to talk about. But from a business perspective, I think all of those reasons are there. It's manifesting as it's just harder to get people moving. And I would say one other thing. It's a little easier to get them moving for their own reasons. It's a little harder to get them moving for collective reasons. So again, I think that's part and parcel of this individualization and people being somewhat more fractured. So I don't know, does that ring true for you or does it have any bearing on family structures? Julie: Yeah, I think it really does. I think we also just have to remember that we all are obviously existing within these different levels of society, right? Like you can look at your team, you can look at your business, we can look at our kids and our families, but we also can look at the social structure and we can look at what's happening in the world and the battles that are being fought throughout the world. And it's really easy to be, because they all come into our immediate bedrooms with our devices, it's really easy to have the overlay of that trap us in our thought. Like, like, why do I, why does it even matter if I'm pushing forward here when people are being killed there? Am I a good person for blocking that out so that I can get my work done, or should I be investing all of my time in at least standing by them in some way? Right? So part of it is how do we take all of this stuff that's coming into our worlds and discern, okay, this is all happening and how am I choosing to live within this? And think in families, our kids are seeing that. And because they're well-meaning, they're caring, they're thoughtful, they're sensitive, all of this news that's coming in and smacking them in the face all the time can feel really overwhelming and unmotivating like, why am I even bothering if we aren't going to be here in ten years? And I'm hearing that from various levels, like I'm 50, so when I'm talking kids, I'm talking 20s and 30s as well. Obviously 30-year-olds are not kids, but that's kind of the way I'm thinking about it. I'm hearing these different generations talking about, well, should I even be planning for X if I'm not going to go that long? And so they're just not having that this is my arc of my life and how can I live that life as opposed to, yeah, why even bother? This is really glum. Tim Sweet: Yeah. No, but I mean, you're like when the external threats become so large and the external challenges become large and our feeling of what we mean in the world becomes comparatively smaller, that sense of nihilism really can set in and it can be a) what is it all for? If I want to go in and I want to work with a team to improve, I don't know throughput of their, of how many customers they can process or something. Okay. So they get an extra 10% of customers. Yeah, it probably means something. It probably means we can probably track that back to profitability and the rest of it. But then immediately if you're expending that effort and meanwhile you're seeing people dying on social media or these huge threats emerging, it does feel like you're playing out a simulation. You're, it's a game compared to real life. I think the interesting flip side is at the same time, we have people wanting to have more investment in their own personal pursuits and their own, you know, spending time with family, maybe, it could be in fitness, it could be whatever the life side of the balance is, they're spending time there and these could be equally, you know, for instance, okay, if I'm thinking about my kids, it could be time on a video game or something. These could be nonproductive, but they are, they're feeling good. And so then we get back to, well, are we talking about we have this nebulous fear out here, this big, broad fear, and we get back down into, well, what am I doing in the moment? And is there an immediate payoff? And one aspect of organizational change or process change within a business is it's theoretical and then it is something that you can apply, but it's not terribly personal. And then it tends to have delayed gratification, if any gratification. The gratification may actually be experienced by somebody else in the organization or the customer or something along those lines, and they may not even recognize, you may not dot line your effort all the way through to that achievement unless you're measuring it or unless there's a system set up to do that. And so it can feel pretty unrewarding. It can feel like you're tipping your life force into some effort and you're not sure how that benefited me, right? In a way. Julie: Right! are But so that is so cool because if we aware of that, then we have an opportunity to ask ourselves the question, So where can I find that gratification? So how can I find this motivating or interesting? How can I tie this into something that's really important to me and be inspired by it? Because we choose that. Like we can wait for somebody else to make this interesting for us, or we can step in and say, No, I'm here, I'm using my time. How do I make this important to me? How do I make this valuable? Is it that yes, I'm doing a job that is not overly stimulating to me, but I'm earning money and I'm taking that money and I'm donating it to a cause that I really believe in. How do we make it something special for us? Because delayed gratification is something that we all need to learn to deal with, and part of that is playing a few games with ourselves around, Okay, so how do I make this special? How do I feel like I'm contributing? Is it about the people? I think that's really exciting, that to recognize that and then to figure out, okay, how do I play this game? Tim Sweet: I had a conversation just recently and it's another episode in this podcast with Paul Farmer from Mentoris down in Australia. And he is a very tactical consultant. I mean he deals with financial and strategy and yes, he's general business, but his practice has switched over into basically - and I've adopted some of this - his opening concern is how do you want to feel? When you're doing what you want in life, how does it feel? If the most important thing to you is arriving at a state where you feel successful, let's actually describe what that feels like. And then are we taking moves to move us closer to that? And I think if I then apply that to this conversation, if we don't have a clear bead on that, and we can't judge where we are and are we getting closer or farther away, we really are lacking something. I think for when we're engaged in sometimes unhealthy short-term gratification, you know, small distractions, these kinds of things, we get this kind of immediate snippets of this feeling, but it's not necessarily building up to the long term vision because, again, we don't know if we're going to be here in ten years. Tim Sweet: So that's kind of out of the table for right now. We're not too concerned. You know, everything's moved close up. We're not really thinking long-range. Again in business or - I hate saying that 'in business' - but in say, in a person's job, we're one step removed even from that. And it's kind of like we're not even promised that this is going to feel good. We haven't found why it's rewarding. Why is it fulfilling? Why do I take, why do I take pride in what I've done? Or why do I feel a sense of happiness, gratification, achievement, whatever that is, it just feels too far away. And in fact, I think maybe what's happened over the last two years is people have just been moving and settling for action without any clear reward or, you know, you're moving in spite of it. You're moving with no feedback or very little or random. And so we need to kind of get in tune again with why work, for instance, or parenthood or sport or whatever our pursuit is... Julie: Or making dinner or loading the dishwasher or going to bed or whatever, yeah. Tim Sweet: Okay. Let me amend. I mean within our sensory, whether it's physical or it's emotional. Julie: I get it. Tim Sweet: Yeah. But it happens within, it doesn't yet translate into any external measure, you know, yet. It's really, it's within our own simulation, within our own sensory net. It's like, did that just matter? And I think we've been going through the motions for quite a while. Not everything. Not everybody, not all the time. In aspects of our life, certain people have been going through the motions, I'd say a lot of people have been going through the motions. And that's why, you know, when they wake up that they're at a point where I feel its absence. They know something needs to change. And the question comes how to start, what to start on, where is my foothold? Julie: Gigantic shoe here, right? Tim Sweet: These umbrellas of fear that are just hanging over everybody and a lot of uncertainty and a lot of... I never thought - I mean, just to talk about the Ukraine for a minute - I'm a child of the 80s. I mean, I remember when the wall came down. I never thought we would be back there. I never thought in my lifetime we would be talking about renewed, you know, threat of nuclear annihilation or Cold War. I mean, we're not even in a Cold War, we've got a hot war right now. But, you know, and it's the last thing in the world I would have wished for my kids. Julie: Sure. And we can say the same thing where I kind of thought women's rights had kind of come a little bit and now we're watching them go backwards. Tim Sweet: Oh, yeah. Well, and you see these waves of like two steps forward, one step back or one step forward, two steps back. And I think a lot of that in my mind, and this is a little bit off-topic from where we are, but what I'm seeing is we're seeing such a move towards polarization in society and people have moved closer to the extreme. And what we're missing is we're missing this rational middle where people can disagree and still get stuff done. We're not missing it entirely. But I just think... Julie: No, I would argue that the media is telling us that we are a lot more disparate than we are, and there's a bunch of people hanging out in the middle who are just wanting the middle to be here. And I agree with you that all those scary things, hearing those scary things and the disparity and the distance between us is it's not easy to just kind of go, okay, let's go. Tim Sweet: And this is what's really interesting is when we think about 2018, 2019 and years before that, to understand just how fragile that social contract was. And I'm not saying it shouldn't. There's aspects of it that absolutely needed to change. But we again, we've approached a lot of change and a lot of areas very, very quickly, been more successful in some than others. But just how it didn't take much to question what is the employee-employer relationship, what does that actually, what is the promise of work actually look like? And what are our options? The bulk of society, do they have to assume that work looks a certain way and the transaction looks a certain way? And what is accessible to a person? What are they allowed to stand up against and be activists against and where are they allowed to find satisfaction in work? Julie: For me, that's what makes this time one of the coolest times to be living in. Because I think, and I might be the only person who thinks this, but I think we have, there are so many invitations for change or opportunities, directions that we might be able to make change in because we've seen what's happened over the two years. We've seen resourcefulness, we've seen inventiveness and people being given a crisis and then rising to it and figuring out a way that we can make this work. We're all talking to people across the world through Zoom now in ways, or Instagram and all the different social media. We just have connections in so many different ways and so many opportunities to fight for what we really believe in and to create opportunities for people to work together or to start those opportunities happening. And so for me, this is a time of like, Woah. Tim Sweet: Oh yeah, it's a time of renewal for sure. Julie: I know that's not for everybody. But for me, I think living right now is super interesting because we have the opportunity to step in and step up. Tim Sweet: I think it is for everybody in a way. I'll say why. I don't think it's necessarily accessible to everybody, but I think we've come through an age. We've come through an age of the human being that is as profound as the industrial revolution. We've, this is a new age. It's a new revolution. And people have been trying to coin what kind of revolution is this. And it could be the new individualism. It could be the new... Julie: I hope it's not. God, I hope it's not. We've had enough individualism. We need some... Tim Sweet: Yeah. One philosopher was calling it The Age of Accessibility and another one was calling it The Age of Location. Like you can work from anywhere. You can choose how you're going to show up. And so whatever we're going to call it and I don't think it's been coined yet, it is different. And I think the critical mass we're seeing now, I do think we've been polarized, but I think we're going to see this crash back into the middle. And people are realizing that they can't wait for it to - it sounds kind of trite - but they can't wait for it to return to what it is. I don't think anybody's really thinking that way, but just that change is a-coming and I got to do something about it. And we're going to see more and more people rebalancing and resetting where they are. And I mean my coaching practice is just like it's, they're all showing up a little bit differently. But there just seems to be this, there has been this new energy. And so although we're talking about getting started, the will is there and it's growing. And so I think we're going to see another reset. This reset, though, is going to be more intentional than the last one. Julie: Yes. Or feeling a little bit more controlled, like we have more control over it. Tim Sweet: Maybe it's the Age of Intentionality. I don't know. Maybe we should come up with the old one. We better start making t-shirts. All right. Well, we've kind of, we've kind of talked, you know, and there's a couple of places that I think this is going. Here's what I would suggest. Why don't we put a pin in this right now? Let's have some closing thoughts around where we got to today. But then let's talk about where we want to shoot when we talk next. Because as everything you and I do, I mean, it's one thing to talk about the situation and to kind of visualize it, but then the question comes, what are we going to do? What are we going to actually, how are we going to turn this into something? Julie: Let's make it happen. Tim Sweet: Yeah, yeah. So what are your big, what are your big sort of summary thoughts on what we've managed? Have we managed anything? Oh, my gosh, we've meandered. Julie: I think there's the yin and the yang. There's the lethargy, there's the being stuck, the malaise, those low points. And there's the possibility and the opportunities that are still coming in regardless of how many years we're here. Right? We're here. Let's, let's do this. Let's figure out how we're going to do today. And so, yeah, I think it's looking at the whole picture. It's okay to have all of those things, the lows and the highs and that they all make up what life is. That's what I'm taking away from it. What about you? Tim Sweet: I think it's funny, the visual that I got when you were saying that the lows and the highs, was thinking about a groove in a record. And I think-- Julie: Groovy. Tim Sweet: Yeah. But I think people's malaise, right, the languish that has been sort of a reasonable feeling. Maybe it's helplessness, maybe it's depression, whatever it is, this kind of dull ache that we've had the last two years is there and then in stark relief, is starting to appear these peaks of desire for things to, you know, be more in control of the individual. What can the individual do? How do they need to change? There's an energy that's building in people. And the synergy is expressing itself in a whole bunch of different ways. Yeah, it could be personal success. We're seeing it a lot, you know, and we've seen it a lot in people's willingness to get back together, to accept certain risks and to try to reassemble. But we're seeing this stark relief of where we've been satisfied. And now people are going to rise up against their own experience and say, I want more. I want more of something, I got to, I don't know what that is yet. I haven't put my finger on it yet. And I certainly may not know what to act, how to act to get going. But there's just this, again, this relief between what... I think the tolerance for being tolerant with one's lack of fulfillment or kind of lack of potential in the world is going to quickly come to an end. Julie: Yeah, I see it as you're talking about, it's like now is the winter of our discontent, right? There's this like darkness, this the earth, you know, settling. And the leaves have fallen down and it's the cold and it's the winter. And it's this low point that we've been in. And then underneath the ground, there are these seeds. And while we can't see them, they're starting to send out roots and they're starting to poke and starting to grow upwards. They're still underground. But they're starting, right? There's that little frisson of something that's starting. Don't know what it's going to turn into. We can't see the plant yet, so we don't know what it is. But we know that even under that darkness and in the mud and in the cold, there is this something coming up. So cool. Tim Sweet: I think people want to matter again. And many people have gone through a question of just how much do they matter. We go back to that nihilism piece. We're not starting from being in a, you know, in a lord and vassal relationship. We're not starting with, you know, having come from abject poverty by and large. Julie: We aren't. Tim Sweet: We aren't. Some people are. Julie: Many people in this world are. Tim Sweet: [ Many people are, granted. But in the first world, you know, a Western context, we have a point of comparison where we were brought up believing in our own potential and our own power. We raised our children this way to believe that the world was their oyster. And so the last two, three years have fallen and gone against those reassurances. And so whether or not it's accurate, whether or not, you know, there's other challenges, people have felt like they matter more than they matter today. And. Yeah, many people, not everyone, but many people. And so there is, I think there's an impatience with feeling like they are smaller than they want to be. And again, it won't be everybody and some people will remain oppressed and some people will will be moving from oppression into something else. But again, I'm speaking in gross generalities. I think within the business community, people want to matter again. They want to feel like their work matters and they want to feel like they've got--. Julie: Purpose. Tim Sweet: Yeah, they want to feel like their canoe paddle can turn the boat a little bit. And I think whether or not it's accurate, we're going to see a renewed interest in at least the leadership portion of the business community getting really active. Right now I think that activity is going to be really scattered. If it's not approached properly, it's going to fail every once in a while, and that might drive people back down, right? So anyway, that would be my big takeaway is that those little, those hips and valleys as the needle's going over are starting to make a lot of noise and that noise is starting to be a screech and people are going to want to get this into a rhythm and get some orderliness and some harmonies that they can dance to. Julie: I'm feeling the metaphor. I'm hearing the metaphor. Tim Sweet: So I think that's the period we're in. Yeah. All right. Well, that was fun. So that was, I love having these opening conversations because I think what it does is it steers us towards a more pointed conversation next time, right? So let's move forward to, you know, how do we move through this period and get active? Julie: Sounds good. Tim Sweet: All right. See you next time, Julie. Julie: Talk soon. Comments are closed.
|
Videos, Articles, Tools and More for Leaders in BusinessSET UP FOR SUCCESS?
|
RSS Feed
