PODCAST EP.30: Jagroop Chhina - Crafting Impactful Content

Episode Summary: ​​In this insightful episode, Tim Sweet and Jagroop Chhina, founder of Psy Spark Strategies, delve into the importance of attention in today's digital landscape. They discuss crafting impactful content, building an audience, and personal branding strategies. Chhina's expertise in psychology and business shines as they explore practical steps for content creation and audience engagement, encouraging listeners to share their knowledge for collective growth. Tune in for valuable insights on navigating the realm of content creation and establishing a strong personal brand.

Episode Notes: 
In this insightful episode, Tim Sweet engages in a thought-provoking discussion with Jagroop Chhina, the visionary founder of Psy Spark Strategies, exploring the transformative power of sharing expertise and experiences to create invaluable content and forge a strong personal brand. As they delve into the depths of this topic, Jagroop sheds light on the art of translating complex technical knowledge into relatable language and underscores the profound influence of psychology on the trajectory of business success. Furthermore, they navigate through the evolving landscape of attention in today's society, portraying it as the newfound currency and dissecting its profound implications for individuals and businesses alike in the realm of content creation.
The discussion goes beyond theory to practical methods for engaging audiences and maximizing impact through personal and business branding. Jagroop masterfully guides listeners through the intricate process of cultivating an audience and harnessing the potential of authentic storytelling to not only captivate but also inspire and educate. By imparting practical insights and actionable advice, this episode serves as a beacon of guidance for aspiring content creators and seasoned professionals alike, illuminating the path toward personal fulfillment and collective growth in an ever-evolving digital landscape.
About Jagroop Chhina
Jagroop Chhina is the founder of Psy Spark Strategies. A consulting firm that offers psychological solutions to solve business problems. With an M.sc. in I/O psychology he takes a behavioural science approach to branding, marketing, employee, leadership, and business challenges.
At 23 he launched his first company and went on to build a multimillion-dollar business in real estate. He’s advised companies like Shopify, Shaw, Lotto 649, Go Solutions, and London Drugs on their brand strategy. While also coaching politicians, entrepreneurs, and professionals on their personal branding and business challenges. Now, his mission is to transform 10,000 leaders into culture creators. Catalyzing great people to shape our society, make an impact, and move with purpose.
Resources discussed in this episode:

• Jim Collins: Flywheel 
• Kevin Kelly: 1,000 True Fans

Contact Tim Sweet | Team Work Excellence: 

• Website
• LinkedIn: Tim Sweet
• Instagram
• Linkedin: Team Work Excellence

Contact Jagroop Chhina | Psy Spark Strategies: 

• Website: psyspark.ca
• Instagram: @psy.spark
• TikTok: @psy.spark
• LinkedIn: Jagroop Chhina

Transcript: 
Jagroop 00:00
I think a lot of people end up becoming experts in their fields. And the next big step is translating that expertise for a more general audience. I've worked with quite a few engineers and helping them build their brands out becoming consultants and known in the space that they're working in. That's one of the big challenges that they have, they get very technical because they know that so well. And the challenge really does become how do you communicate in such a way that the average person is going to understand and be interested in it?

Tim 00:33
I'd like to ask you some questions. Do you consider yourself the kind of person that gets things done? Are you able to take a vision and transform that into action? Are you able to align others towards that vision and get them moving to create something truly remarkable? If any of these describe you, then you my friend, are a leader, and this show is all about and all for you. Welcome to the Sweet on Leadership podcast. This is our 30th episode. Thanks for joining us. 
Tim 01:07
Welcome back, everybody. Thanks for joining us again, here on Sweet on Leadership, I am welcoming today, somebody that I think you're going to get a lot of value from. And although I haven't known him for very long, in the short time that I have, I am very inspired and impressed. Jagroop, could you please say hello and tell people who you are? 

Jagroop 01:26
Hey Tim, it’s great to see you. I'm happy to be here. So, I'll do a little brief introduction of myself. I am he organizational psychologist who happens to do branding and marketing and solving business problems, basically. Right.

Tim 01:43
That's excellent. And when you were telling me about that, you had a really nice way of saying that, you know, that is an area where people need help, because they often don't realize that they have that tool, right? They don't have that option. 

Jagroop 01:57
It’s a phrase that has psychological solutions to business problems. 

Tim 02:03
Awesome. Yeah. So, if we were to see you on an average day when our first conversation a few weeks ago, I think what really inspired me about you was that it's not just that you're not just doing that, although that's I mean, it's a major focus for you, obviously. But you're involved in a bunch of other industries and a bunch of other hobbies. And such a passion for doing well in all of those areas. So, could you give also the people who are listening, a little bit of an understanding of how you are one of these, do-it-all kind of guys?

Jagroop 02:34
So, I like to take a bit of a generalist approach, you know, I've learned that when people are into something, there's usually something dope and interesting about that. Right? So, I'm always interested in like, learning new experiences and trying new things out. So, I've become a bit of a generalist just through that practice alone, right? So, I have a side business in building homes, you know, on the day-to-day, I might be consulting a business on tax mitigation, or a leader on how to put out content for themselves, right? So, my days vary, basically, from day to day. So yeah.

Tim 03:12
Your formal education is in Organizational Psychology. And when you think of any of those things that you strive to do, be a managing homebuilding company, or helping people with tax mitigation or answering very specifically those marketing questions. Do you find that that's a great vet to have? Like, is your knowledge and organizational psychology something that you lean on constantly? 

Jagroop 03:35
Oh, for sure. I think the basis of all business is psychology, you know, whether you're building out a team, you got to understand how people operate, their personalities, their motivations, you know. You're doing marketing and sales, how is the content that you're putting out being perceived, right? Sales, how are you actually persuading other people to buy your product, right? So, a lot of it really does come down to psychology. So, if you understand how people operate, then your business should thrive, right? 

Tim 04:03
This is why you and I have, I think such an intense professional connection. Because, you know, I'm all about helping people become fluent in how they think and how their teams think. Fluent in what they care about, and how they show up, and how do they find fulfilment in work? Where do they pinpoint those areas of joy? So, that, you know that massive amount of time we spend in our vocations can be a great humanistic time where we feel that we're growing and we're sharing and we're contributing and we're helping others, right? That's the next level away from saying, you know, I've got a job okay, fine. I collect a paycheck. Okay, fine. But is this now connecting me with something that's larger? Something that's that, why,  or that purpose? I’m totally–

Jagroop 04:55
It gives meaning to what you do. 

Tim 04:56
Yeah, absolutely. Let's talk about that then. When we think about being in this world where people are often pushed towards specializations, right? They're having to choose something. What advice would you give someone that wants to open themselves up to thinking just how broad their contribution can be?

Jagroop 05:19
You know what, there's nothing wrong with becoming a master of your craft, you know, I think there's huge benefits to just doing that, right? So, when you learn one skill, what I have a tendency to do is to take that skill and try to apply it to a different field, to something that's completely unrelated, right? Or the other way around, right? You learn how to play music. And you learn how to improvise with a group during a concert or something. How does that play into say, building a business or leading a team of people, right? So, life is all a metaphor and as soon as you start recognizing some of the lessons you learned, they can be applied to other spheres and dynamics of it, right? 

Tim 06:06
That’s a great point. I mean, when I think about my own mind group, they're often specialists that are coming out of, say, geotechnical fields, or they’re professors at universities and these kinds of things. And they've made their career and they've established their sense of worth, and they've established their sense of professionalism within a bubble of experts. So, they might be very familiar, let's say if they're engineers, very familiar with the way engineers talk and the way engineers think, and they climb in those spheres. And at a certain point, they outgrow just the engineering bubble, and they burst out and suddenly now, they're outside where not everybody thinks like they think, but if they're solid in their own practice, and if they're masters of their craft, often it's something that we can leverage. And I remember that with engineers, when I'm teaching them how to build teams, it's one thing for them to say, Oh, I've got to now learn how to build a team. Well, let's not talk that way. How do you engineer your team? How do you apply your engineering principles when it comes to people? If you're a geotechnical person, how do you apply your geotechnical knowledge, which is all about, you know, understanding what's happening 1000s of feet down on the ground without ever seeing it, to uncovering the unknowns in some other sphere? Or if you're an organizational psychologist, like yourself, you know, how does that then not just translate to the people working in home building, but the home building process itself?

Jagroop 07:40
I think a lot of people end up becoming experts in their fields. And the next big step is translating the expertise and dumbing it down for a more general audience. So, I've worked with quite a few engineers and helping them build their brands out becoming consultants and known in the space that they're working in. Right? And that's one of the big challenges that they have, they get very technical because they know that so well. And the challenge really does become, how do you communicate in such a way that the average person is going to understand and be interested in it?

Tim 08:18
Not only can you be translated into somebody else's, and be interested in it, but I guess it works the other way, too. How can you use that as a gateway to understanding what they mean? Maybe enriching the conversation. We never think about that. Because we're an expert in one thing, we may forget about the fact that it's cross-applicable. 

Jagroop 08:40
Yeah, for sure. Like an engineer trying to build out their team? Well, they understand that in order to build out a product, there are certain variables at play. Now, when you're building out a team, what are the variables that you're looking out, to build that team out? Right? What are the characteristic traits that you want to see in a person that's going to mesh well with your culture, your team? So, reframing a perspective that aligns better with wherever trying to look at it, that's the game. 

Tim 09:07
I think about my first degree was in history. My next pursuit was to get a chef's papers and become a professional chef. I was good at it but didn't stick. But I still use lessons, both from history and cheffing, cooking. From history, it's I carry so much over into building an argument and understanding things and doing my homework, doing the research. But even from cheffing, the fundamentals of how to create this is in high cuisine, but how to create balance on a plate, balance in the flavour palate. And those are metaphors that I think of immediately, you know about creating balance in somebody's life. If I'm coaching or balanced on a team if I'm doing team building, and really appreciating the flavours that a person brings. And I would say that I have almost that olfactory experience of, you know, you're beyond just the sensations that you get from people being in front of you. It's not just about sight, smell and taste, there's something else, there's some other experience when you really connect with a person and are able to, you know, kind of find that symbiosis with them. 

Jagroop 10:19
Creating a harmony where you don't expect there to be one that you know. And it's from an accumulation of all the experiences that you've had, you know, you can take lessons from, say, cheffing, or sports or playing music, whatever it might be.

Tim 10:33
If we think of ourselves and those around us as this culmination, and this collection of all these different experiences, and all this lived experience, and all this acquired knowledge and all these lessons that come out of triumph and failure and difficulty in good times, and the rest of it, what does that then leave us with, when one thinks about, well, what do we have to offer the world?

Jagroop 10:58
I mean, that's what leads to the value you create, right? So, creating content is about delivering value in one form or another. And that can be either educating other people or entertaining them in some way. But when you've lived through certain things, it's just sharing those stories. That brings a value rate. When I work with, I want to say, more well-respected and older clientele. They focus on things like legacy and creating value for generations after themselves, right? Because after three generations, we as a person, were going to be forgotten, dead, and everybody who knew us, is going to be gone as well, right? And we are lucky enough to live in the day and age where now we can put out content that can live beyond us. Like, I would love it, if I could see what my great great great grandfather did back in the day, and how he was living a life, like how what was his perspective on things, right? And now we have the opportunity to actually document our lives, to share that with the people we care about.

Tim 12:02
My cousin, Dave Sweet. He was the chief homicide detective here in the city. He joined me for two episodes earlier on. When he approached writing two books, he said that it was so that his grandchildren or his great-grandchildren might have heard about this, you know, crazy great-granddad, that was this veteran policeman who did all sorts of crazy, crazy things. And so he wrote his first book, which was Skeletons in the Closet, I think it was called. And it was stories that he, Skeletons in My Closet that's what it was called, you know, stories about all of these things he had learned through these, these really quiet, what you and I would see as dramatic experiences. While this is a way for him to transmit that and now that he has retired from the police force, he is writing his second book, or it's about to come out. And it's called the Unconventional Classroom as his new company. And it's about learning from all of these lessons that people don't appreciate they got from life, really looking at it as what is this thing? If we think about life as an unconventional classroom? What can we extract from it? Right? And it gives us this next sense of purpose. And when you were talking about that idea that we have things now that we can share, what came into my mind was the picture of dynamite for some reason, or gunpowder. You know, when we think that gunpowder is a combination of sulphur, and charcoal and, and saltpetre, right, and we put these things together, and suddenly they create this explosion. And if we think about leaders, this is often why I look at multiple facets of people, when I'm helping them understand who they are, they kind of have their main gear and it's kind of the steady-eddy, the thing that they're always in. And so it might be you know, I'm really detail oriented. And so if they play on that gear too much, then suddenly they're micromanagers. Right? But if they start bringing in other gears, I'm a detail-oriented person who also really cares about trust, it takes on a completely different flavour. And sometimes they haven't quite connected to that other gear, that other skill. Whereas if we look at all the ways they provide value into the world, all the ways in which they've learned, it could actually really help a person balance themselves out and say, you know what, from this vocation, I'm going to take my engineering expertise, but you know what, over here, I'm a member of a curling rink. And so I'm gonna take some of my team knowledge, I'm gonna bring that into the mix. And over here, you know, I've volunteered at old folks homes, so I'm going to help people connect to like, what is it all for or something right? Suddenly, you become this, this really volatile, potential filled individual, when you know, carbon on its own will burn, but not nearly as well as if it has an accelerant or something else, then all of a sudden it becomes explosive. And so in a way, how do we become something that's just smouldering towards something that when it needs to, it can throw shockwaves of value and heat and, you know, move mountains literally? Right? So, get a little too into the metaphor, but there you go.

Jagroop 15:34
No, I love it's, it's bringing in a wider range of experiences and putting them all together. You know, I think Steve Jobs did some version of it, where he, at a time focused on learning calligraphy. And from learning those lessons, he translated that to producing the first iPod and iMac or whatever was right?

Tim 15:58
By being style-focused and really creating this aesthetic that nobody else had at the time.

Jagroop 16:02
Yeah, like just pursuing whatever you're passionate or interested in, you never know how further down the line that's going to become valuable to you.

Tim 16:10
I love that. It goes back to… let me take a quick aside, whenever I talk to Americans, talking to an American, we got an American, a really exciting American coming on the show fairly soon, we're recording. Well, whenever I talk to Americans, you know, sometimes we touch on this idea of the melting pot. When I was a kid, we were always taught that Canada was not a melting pot. Canada is a quilt or Canada is a motif, right? We take all of our differences and we use them to create something even more vibrant and even stronger. In the cooking analogy, we want the flavours of all the foods to come out, to be complex, we don't want it to be just homogenous. It's like, you know, a vibrant stew or something, right? And so, you know, when I think about us appreciating ourselves, even, is to see ourselves as this construct of all of these different identities that we have. All of these different ways we face the world. And not just switching gears from one to the next to the next to the next. But allow the other ones to, and appreciate the other ones for being able to give us. Are we accessing our entire Batman belt? Or are we only taking one pocket into the fight? Right? Like, do we have it all at our disposal? And maybe we do this subconsciously? But what if we do it consciously? What if we do it intentionally? And we appreciate ourselves for the–

Jagroop 17:37
For the entire tool belt? You know, yeah that's when you develop a superpower, basically, right? When you can tap into X, Y, and Z, depending on what the situation or circumstances require.

Tim 17:50
And blend those suckers as well. So, maybe they became something brand new.

Jagroop 17:54
Yeah, creating something brand new that didn't exist before and a new perspective that couldn't exist unless you lived it out the way that you lived it out, right? So the first step is basically to figure out who you seek to serve, and the next is to figure out what you have to offer, and then the last step is bridging that gap between the two. What do you have to offer and what does your audience need and want, and how do you actually bring that value to them?  
Tim 18:21
What’s your suggestion on what platform to choose?
Jagroop 18:23
It depends on what your sphere is right? So like if you’re doing it to build out your business and your clients are all on LinkedIn, but that might be the spot, right? But if you’re a boxer trying to make it to the Olympics, you probably don't want to be on LinkedIn, right? Tailor it to whatever works best for you and your audience
Tim 18:43
Should people be afraid of different types of media? Can they be written or photo or film? Or what's your advice about what should they focus on? Or should they focus? 
Jagroop 18:54
So I think the most valuable format these days is in short video, if you record a long-form video, and you can chop that up, that kind of works on every single platform, tick tock, Instagram, YouTube, LinkedIn, all of them support video. But if you write a blog post, that's only going to go on LinkedIn, it's not going to be showing up on YouTube or TikTok, right? So go for the one that's most high leverage across all the platforms available to you.
Tim 19:20
What's the advantage of going in bite-sized pieces and having a whole bunch of small snippets where you share concept after concept after concept after concept? Rather than having it all in one large video, what's the advantage is putting it up like that?
Jagroop 19:34
It's top of funnel, right? So it's exposed to a lot more people and then they see who you are. And if they're interested in what you say. They themselves will seek out that long-form content.
Tim 19:42
And you'll also see where they're hitting on the short form so you can use it.

Jagroop 19:48
There's plenty of testing right there as well.
Tim 19:52
And then we get to, you know, the old marketing analogy of the of the unique selling proposition? Well, if you are a unique combination of all these things that make you you, and you find a way to bring all of that to bear, in a sense, leverage each other. So, it's one great harmonic within yourself, you are A) more powerful than you'd be otherwise and B) more unique. Because how can you replicate that? So, now you truly have something you can lean on that’s special. And I love that it fights against the idea that you should be something else. And that's the biggest thing when you read leadership books and stuff. I'll read a book, to become, somebody else, right? Help me, be me kind of thing. So the easiest thing in the world? Right? 
Jagroop 20:34
Yeah, I was just having a conversation about this literally earlier today. And it's trying to find the balance between what the world wants you to be or telling you who you should be versus who you authentically are, and bringing out the best versions of yourself, right? And that's the real hero's journey, hero's story, right? Is to bring out the best version of yourself, in a world that's telling you something completely different.

Tim 21:09
A diamond will not sparkle if it's only got one face. So, you know, what are all your facets and maybe get really fluent in those. And understand just what you have to lean on.

Jagroop 21:19
Yeah, there's lessons, I always think there's a lesson I can learn from every person that I meet. And at the same time, there's something that I have to teach them as well, you know?

Tim 21:30
Well, on that note, that's a great segue because I got lots more to learn from you and sort of people listening. Let's move into, you and I earlier had talked about, you know, a couple of the pieces we want to hit, and I think it's now time to bring up this idea. So, if we can establish what the value is that somebody has, in the context of everything that they are and all the potential they have. So, let's talk about that thought of sharing it and moving ourselves into that content creation or that engagement space. So, I'd like you to go a little bit into, around why a person owes it to themselves to share that. 

Jagroop 22:14
So, for me, personally, I was always a pretty smart kid. And I had a tendency to just write the answers to whatever the problem or the thing in the classroom was, right? And where I always lost marks was in showing your work. That was my feedback over my entire, like, elementary to high school, show your work, right? And that's what creating content is actually about. It's about showing your work and documenting what it takes for us to succeed, right? Because that's how we actually learn our lessons, you know, well, other people learn lessons from us is by showing them, Oh, this is what we go through on the day to day to build this out, right?

Tim 22:56
Otherwise, you're nothing but a black box, stuff goes in and comes out the other side and it's kind of a graphic picture. But we're given something to work with and suddenly we come up with a solution and they don't know how. And so given them nothing to connect to. We've given them nothing to believe in, in some ways.

Jagroop 23:47
Yeah. And then the added challenge of like, how are you known as well? Like, what's your reputation as well? Right? The problem is, most people struggle on in obscurity is what it is, right? And what you want to do is go from obscurity to notoriety, to being actually known as an expert in what you do, right? And that's what bridging that gap is creating content that delivers value, showcasing, yes, I do know about, you know, drilling oil or whatever it might be, right?

Tim 23:47
Yeah. So, I mean, some people are going to buck against that, in the sense of there are certain people that do not want to be notable, they don't want to be out there, they want to fly under the radar. And there is some justification for that, for sure. But I think this doesn't only apply as we're going to talk about in terms of massive audiences. But let's say you just are the owner of a business and that business does not need to be out in the sphere, although I think we both would challenge that. But let's say we just want to reach your team, you just want to reach inside. We're talking about the same thing here, we're talking about showing people your work, so that you can inspire others and give them a path to follow and give them a role model, right, that they can consider. And I like that aspect of there's no answers in the answer, right? There's answers in the decisions or the steps you took to get to the answer. And they might need to know, they don't just need to know this can be solved, they need to know, what am I missing, that's that I'm not able to solve it. And if they can find that in your journey, then there's something that they can emulate. Or it's very direct, it's a task or a behaviour or something. 

Jagroop 24:20
Yeah, for like, what I see for small business owners is that your clients can work with you if they don't know you. And it's overcoming that obstacle, which is difficult for most people, right? And I advocate for just documenting what you're doing because you're already kind of doing it. All you got to do is now hit record and share that rate. Because your expertise is going to come out through that, right? 
Tim 25:32
So, you may want to share everything. But it doesn't matter a lick if people aren't going to pay attention, so drop on them. Because you gave me a line a couple of weeks ago that I think it's just gold. So, tell me all about that. What do we need to know about attention?
Jagroop 25:44
I think attention is the new currency is what it is, right? So, the original way a business basically exchanges value for money. And that value is either a product or a service, right? But now we live in a day and age where money isn't necessarily the most valuable thing. It's people's attention, right? Where are they actually focusing, where are their eyes going? Right? And that's where it goes into the idea of content relating to the attention you get, right? So, delivering valuable content and the attention that that brings back to your business to whatever you do, right?

Tim 26:25
Anybody who has a child in school would, if they gave, that statement to a teacher, I'm sure the teachers would be nodding furiously because the ability to hold the student's attention long enough for them to learn and be transformed is their number one challenge. There are so many more distractions that are more enticing. It becomes a war against distraction, it becomes a war against dopamine. Like, short term–

Jagroop 27:03
There's quite a bit of work actually going on in the space where they're looking at people's attention spent and how they used to be compared to how they are now, right? There's a gentleman, he's a researcher, and his ability to read academic articles and studies has gone down over the past 10 years. So, before he could read and study for, say, six hours of just academic content, now it's down to say, three, right? So, our attention spans as a society are decreasing, and blame Tick-Tock, Instagram or whatever it might be. But there are so many more ways to get a quick hit of dopamine, that captures your attention, right? Compared to having the fortitude to actually like, focus on a single task for a given amount of time. Right?

Tim 27:56
Yeah, and learning, learning to attend to something, and that becomes a, it becomes economic in a person's brain. It's what's giving me more pleasure or usefulness or is flipping my switch.

Jagroop 28:06
Yeah, and it's so easy to just scroll away on TikTok, or scroll away on Instagram or whatever it might be. The big difference is the content you consume versus the content you produce. Right? Are you a creator or a consumer? And in business to make value, to make money, you got to be a creator, you know, you're delivering value in some way. And that's what it comes down to content, right? Like you have to focus on your kids, what do you want them to be consuming to actually help them grow? Right? Are they just watching dances and stuff? Or are they listening to educated speakers talk about their expertise? Are they learning lessons from that, right? Are they just looking to be entertained? Or are they actually looking to be educated? And the best version of that is when you're entertained and educated at the same time.

Tim 28:53
So, then there's a next layer of thought here, and that is, those dancing videos, those videos of oh, man, the ones I hate are the ones that are like staged emergencies and things that are out, that’s fake. Or dogs, doing whatever talks do, right, like, there's all sorts of things that we can waste time on. And so when we talk about getting the attention of others, we're not just talking about producing something that's going to join that river of useless information. Right? We're also talking about, well, we've got a purpose to why this is out there. And we have people that we want to connect to that use it. So, talk to me a little bit about the importance of the quality of that information that we're putting out there.

Jagroop 29:36
Yeah, I think a lot of leaders focus on making an impact, right? And this is where it comes on to a different scale of things. So, when you create great content, what you're actually doing is you're crafting culture in a new way, right? You're setting the agenda for the way you want society to move. So, all of a sudden, it goes from being Oh, this is just some goofy thing that I do for fun to just dancing or whatever it might be, all of a sudden, it's a major responsibility for leaders to make an impact and add value in a way that's going to resonate with the audiences that they seek to serve.

Tim 30:20
Jim Collins years ago, and good great talked about the flywheel principle. And he talked about how you can have this huge, if you can imagine this huge stone flywheel in the middle of things, you can go up to that and you can push it, it won't move, it will be this imperceptible amount of force versus the size of this thing. But if enough, people slap that thing, in the right direction, eventually it'll start to move. And eventually, it'll start to spin until it can finally maintain a momentum of its own. You still have to keep going but it's you know, it's spinning in its under its own inertia, or it's got a great deal of inertia. So, what's interesting about what you're saying about crafting these cultures, is that you may not have total control over the direction of the world. But you can certainly choose which way you want to slap that flywheel. You can certainly choose the arena in which you're going to play and the voice that you're going to have, and the vibrancy of that voice, and just how many angles you might give it so that people can connect to you and see themselves in your journey.

Jagroop 29:39
Momentum kind of builds momentum, you know. And the idea becomes people like us do things like this. So, your audience kind of has a tendency to find you. So, in the beginning, nobody's going to see what you do. I think that's something that everybody is really nervous about, especially early on is, oh, I'm going to be judged for looking X, Y and Z. You're saying something stupid in like a video or whatever it might be, but especially early on, nobody's really gonna see it, it doesn't really matter, right? But as you develop your craft, and you start putting out better and better stuff, that's when momentum starts building when you start actually building out a tribe of people who think and believe and look like you, right?

Tim 31:30
So, we see, there's all these reasons for us to get out there. There's all these ways that we might not be yet expressing ourselves. And now we're giving people a reason to say you know what, you can actually affect the world, it may feel small, it may feel imperceptible. So, we're not just talking about people putting themselves out there, but we're talking about them, helping to move this big flywheel, helping to shift culture, helping to shift thought in a certain direction. And to your earlier point, if we are showing our work, we're giving people a pathway to follow where they can start moving that flywheel in their own way, but still in the direction, so we're sort of starting that common effort. And they make it moving it in different spheres, they could be moving in different volumes from us, greater or lower. But we're giving people have stream to join, in a sense, literally. 

Jagroop 33:05
You’re creating a group of like-minded people in one way or another, right? I think it was Kevin Kelley that went into the idea of 1000 true fans, you know, when you have 1000, people who absolutely believe in what you do, or what you're about, your message, your story, and they resonate with all that, that's when you can actually deliver actual value, right? And when you have 1000 true fans, well, the next step is usually monetization, you know, how can you leverage that audience in order to create capital for yourself, right?

Tim 33:38
The idea of true fans is a great one. And Elena Schneider, who was on the phone, the phone on the show earlier, she had this great perspective, and it was around when I was going out there, and I was asking my clients for referrals. They were giving people an easy answer, oh, you're having a problem, oh here, call Tim Sweet, and people would call me. But inevitably, those people or often those people, the answer came too easy. And so they were never as fully invested as the person that found me, started following my stuff, and developed some trust with me before I even met them. And suddenly, when they call me, they're ready to do the work, like they are ready to get down. And they've already decided that I've got something that I can inject into their life that's good, or I can bring to their business. And I don't mind referrals, don't get me wrong. But there's something to be said for people that are true fans that have found a deep and lasting connection to you for reasons that you may not understand versus trying to tell them who you are. And, you know, just the fact that somebody signs off on me, or something like that, which again, I appreciate, but no work went into that, right? 
Jagroop 34:52
And that's the power of an audience, you know, you build a funnel of people who already see what you're about, and they naturally build that trust in you. Right? So, they become a warm lead right off the bat, because they already know what you're about. And they want to work with you. Right? 
Tim 35:10
Okay. So, I hope we've convinced people that there is power in seeking an audience, right, and developing a real relationship with that audience and giving them some of the inside track, some of the other facets of our personality, showing them our work, so that they can start their own journey of growth and learning. But here's the but, for people out there that have never tried to do this or have been primarily consumers of social media, rather than producers. And maybe they're in a line of work where they never really saw themselves as being social contributors. What would your pitch to those people be? What practical steps would you offer them to get started?

Jagroop 35:54
I look at it like this, how valuable would it be if your name was associated with your niche? So, say that you're a general engineer, and you work as an elevator consultant. If you're the most well-known and notorious elevator consultant, how many more clients are going to be inclined to work with you, right? So, it does become more of a business play as well. Building your name and reputation is about people doing business with people, right?

Tim 36:27
But let me give you a challenge then. A whole bunch of my clients are not motivated by money. They are academics, or they are specialists in the public health sphere or their educators. Maybe there's no monetary upside. If we take the monetary aspect away. What kind of benefit should they be focused on by getting a larger audience? 

Jagroop 36:55
A lot of is just sharing your knowledge, you know, you're an expert in your field, but nobody knows. And you don't actually deliver that to anybody. What do you actually do? You know, you're operating in a void. And the impact you want to make is by working with other people who gain value from your expertise, right?

Tim 37:16
Early in the conversation, you said, that in three generations will be forgotten. Everybody who knew us and loved us will be dead. Right? There was a Buddhist philosophy that I heard of years ago, which I really liked. And it was on their concept of the afterlife, that our ability, or the length of our afterlife was essentially a reflection of the amount of friction we caused in the world. amount of heat we put into the world, and how long it would smoulder and last. I like to think that the amount of my fingerprints will stay on the surface of this earth, is how many people can I touch, how many people can I help lead a better life. We spent a lot of time at work, I would love if all if it was joyful, right? If I can give people lessons that they pass on to, you know, their mentees or their kids. And that carries on for a few generations. When I've spent my entire life amassing this knowledge, to hold, it would be selfish. And to have it just benefit a few number of people feels inefficient, and it feels like a waste. When, you know, why help one person when you can help 60, why help 60 when you can help 600? Why help 600 when you can help 6000? I'm privileged to have the ability to go and learn all about leadership and learn all about teaming. And I don't have to lead a normal business. So, I can help CEOs that do, because they don't have the luxury to go out and find those lessons. I hear from you know, 1000s of leaders, not just you? Wouldn't it be awfully selfish of me to just hold all that back? Right? So. 

Jagroop 39:05
Elon Musk had a bit of an equation for this. So, it's the amount of value or impact you make, times the number of people, right? So, you can make a major impact on a few people. And that is as valuable as a small impact on a larger group of people. So, it's basically playing with that equation and how you want it to play out for yourself. Right?

Tim 39:30
Okay. So, we've given people a reason to consider who they are, and what their multiple facets are within their life, and just how much they've got to offer. We've talked to them about the value of creating an impact and really producing, not just consuming, into the public consciousness and how that can help them steer culture, and benefit themselves, if they are a business owner. I think that's important. We can't step away from that fact. But it's so much larger than just dollars and cents. It's about these true fans. And we've given them a couple of ideas in terms of how to motivate themselves. What are the very first actions that a person should take? 

Jagroop 40:09
First, is to figure out who you seek to serve? Who do you actually want to make an impact for? And then figure out the rest. What is it that you bring to the world that nobody else can? You know, you're an accumulation of a wide range of experiences and how do you package that all together to make the impact that you want to make for the people you care about?

Tim 40:35
I mean, something that I've been learning is that a lot of what I have to teach in a consulting arrangement isn't exactly what people necessarily want to consume on LinkedIn, or want to consume on Instagram. So, I actually start taking side roads in there, because that's what that audience wants to consume. They want to consume. Well, that's what they need, I should say. And so go where the need is. Great. Okay. So, we're at a point here, where I would ask if people want to reach out to you, what is the best place to find you?

Jagroop 41:11
Well, my website is psyspark.ca. And across all the platforms, I am psy.spark, and that's P-S-Y- dot spark.

Tim 41:21
And we will put those links in the show notes. If I was to ask you, what you've got going on, that you want people to know about.

Jagroop 41:31
Yeah, my focus these days is mainly on personal branding and business branding, right? So, helping leaders become content creators in their space. And I guide them through a step-by-step process, from figuring out who their audience is, to what kind of content that they want to push out, to actually putting it out there, right? Giving them my formula so that they got to invest the least amount of time to make the biggest amount of impact with what they do.

Tim 42:00
Second to last, what would be your wish for people, as they're moving forward here? If anybody has taken something away from this conversation, what's the key point you want them to leave with? What's your wish for them?

Jagroop 42:12
It would be to share the experiences and lessons you've learned so that other people can grow from them as well.

Tim 42:21
Generous with your knowledge. Inspired by Debbie Potts, I want to ask you the new question, we're gonna be asking from everybody that is on the show, not necessarily on this subject matter. But if I was to ask you, regardless of who the next leader is that comes on the show, what is a question you would like me to ask them to answer in the kickoff to the show? What's something that you think is a great question that somebody else should be put on the hot seat for?

Jagroop 42:52
So, the question that I usually ask is, what's the most significant lesson you've learned in the past year?

Tim 42:59
Awesome. All right, done it. Watch for it. Thank you very much for joining me today. It's been a real pleasure to spend some time with you. I hope that people can check out your site, I think it's going to be rewarding. And I think that there's so much there that can change a person's life. So, again, I really appreciate you coming on here and dropping a lot of knowledge and I can't wait till we have a chance to play again.

Jagroop 42:34
Thank you for having me on. Oh man, I really appreciate it.

Tim 43:27
All right, Jagroop Chhina. Thank you so much. Talk to you again soon. 

Tim 43:32
Thank you so much for listening to Sweet on Leadership. If you found today's podcast valuable, consider visiting our website and signing up for the companion newsletter. You can find the link in the show notes. If, like us, you think it's important to bring new ideas and skills into the practice of leadership, please give us a positive rating and review on Apple Podcasts. This helps us spread the word to other committed leaders. And you can spread the word too, by sharing this with your friends, teams and colleagues. Thanks again for listening. And be sure to tune in in two weeks' time for another episode of Sweet on Leadership. In the meantime, I'm your host, Tim Sweet, encouraging you to keep on leading.