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Episode Summary: In this episode of the Sweet on Leadership podcast, Tim chats with marketing expert and content creator Jared VanderMeer as he shares his proven approach to long-term brand success. He emphasizes the power of a well-structured touch point cycle, where consistent and authentic content builds trust and drives engagement. If you’re ready to shift your mindset from instant wins to building a brand that truly resonates, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help you make it happen.
Episode Notes
In this episode of the Sweet on Leadership podcast, Tim chats with marketing expert and content creator Jared VanderMeer as he shares his proven approach to long-term brand success. He emphasizes the power of a well-structured touch point cycle, where consistent and authentic content builds trust and drives engagement. Instead of chasing quick ROI, Jared urges businesses to focus on lifetime customer value and to track meaningful metrics like watch time and impressions over vanity likes. With a 90-day commitment to content creation and a strategic marketing budget, businesses can create lasting connections that lead to sustainable growth. Tim and Jared dive into the myths of social media success, the importance of storytelling, and the balance between quality and quantity. They explore why brands should showcase real-life applications of their products instead of aiming for perfection, and why avoiding shortcuts is key to long-term impact. If you’re ready to shift your mindset from instant wins to building a brand that truly resonates, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help you make it happen. About Jared VanderMeer Jared VanderMeer is a digital marketing specialist, public speaker, and entrepreneur. He’s also the creative muse and pioneering spirit behind Magnolias Consulting Group in Canada. From podcasting and videos to blogs and books, Jared is dedicated to driving home the importance of value-based marketing in our modern digital era. If there’s one thing that defines JV above all else, it’s being a Canadian content maker. In the past few years, he has poured all his effort into expanding JV content into all the formats technology has made possible. As an agency owner, JV helps clients grow their businesses on a daily basis, but as a content creator, he takes that goal a step further by sharing his knowledge and experience with brands on a larger scale. JV's debut book If You Sell, You Lose is a step-by-step guide on how to add value to your brand through your digital marketing. It’s just one piece of the larger vision Jared holds for marketers, brand and business owners, and startups. You can also grab free guides, templates, content maps, and more at www.jaredvandermeer.com. Resources discussed in this episode: Contact Tim Sweet | Team Work Excellence: Contact Jared VanderMeer:
Transcript Jared 0:01 What I try to do is get leaders and individuals to understand that you have to think about it just slightly differently. Create a touch point cycle. Create a brand, validate that brand, create a whole bunch of touch points in a circle, and when the timing's right, you're going to capture that customer. You're going to capture that lifetime value. Very, very few, I would say under 2% of leaders are thinking long term, lifetime value rather than ROI, and that's what we want to try to change the conversation to. Tim 0:33 I'd like to ask you some questions. Do you consider yourself the kind of person that gets things done? Are you able to take a vision and transform that into action? Are you able to align others towards that vision and get them moving to create something truly remarkable? If any of these describe you, then you, my friend, are a leader, and this show is all about and all for you. I'm Tim Sweet. Welcome to the 51st episode of the Sweet on Leadership podcast. Tim 1:06 Hey everybody, welcome back to the Sweet on Leadership podcast. Once again, we're joined by a very eclectic and interesting leader, somebody with a perspective that I am sure none of you will have. This is my good friend. And actually, I guess, family by marriage. Jared VanderMeer, Jared, thanks for coming on the show today. I really appreciate it. Jared 1:26 Thanks for having me, Tim, thanks. Tim 1:28 You and I have a history of long talks about business. We annoy our families when we get together for Christmas or Thanksgiving or whatever, because we volunteer for doing the dishes. And then we sit there and we workshop stuff, and we dig deep. And boy, for anybody who isn't a leadership geek or a business geek like you and me, they're all waiting for us to, you know, hurry back and play cards or something. And a lot of people just don't get it, I think right or feel left out, maybe. Jared 1:57 You get addicted to business and you get addicted to these types of things, and we just love talking about it. So when we get that moment to sit down over dishes and talk about it, we just get excited, and we just can't stop so getting back to the other stuff is secondary to getting through our business chat. Tim 2:14 And we've always had a really great split. We can be family, and I think that's really important, and then we can switch it on, and we've worked together, and we've run contracts together, and we've done some amazing things that have been recognized very widely for clients that we've joined forces on. And so that's always been a ton of fun, and it's such a joy to work with somebody that's as passionate about what they do. And so getting into that, I want to really open people up to who you are and what you do, because you've had an amazing transformation over the last eight years, right? So why don't you say it in your own words? Jared 2:50 So, I like to say now that I'm a professional creator, and what that essentially is, is I make content across all online platforms that is designed to hold attention in today's world. Currently, I have 2.9 million followers across platforms on multiple pages, including my wildlife page and my creative photography page. And a couple years ago, I wrote a book called “If You Sell, You Lose.” So, author of “If You Sell, You Lose,” digital marketing kind of theory book, all of my concepts and practices went into that one and I just took that book, took everything I put into it, and applied it to the real world, and took those concepts out to prove them. And have had a lot of fun over the last couple years going out there and and making content for the the modern digital landscape. Tim 3:36 When we think about one of the key attributes of a leader, that they make well informed decisions, evidence based decisions, and this is something that I've always really loved about you. And your approach is that you're not just going out there and pitching an idea, you're testing an idea. And sometimes you take years to test an idea out. And when I share your theories with other people, and when I show them your pages and what you're doing, because again, when we started working together, you were very much focused on marketing, and that was in sort of the more broadly based digital marketing space. But now you're not simply a person that claims to have done it, but you're doing it again and again, and you're doing it repeatedly, and you stood up the Near Me brand, which you know, again, for those of you that don't know, check it out Near Me Victoria. And I think you've got Near Me Edmonton now, is that correct? Jared 4:32 We're starting in Victoria, pretty hard, and then we're going to move it across Canada from there. Tim 4:35 Yeah. And so this, this is a great showcase channel and whatnot. But whether it's that or your wildlife photography piece. How do you create this kind of following? You're really decoding that and demonstrating a process to get there. Jared 4:49 I think the misconceptions about social media and creating content for marketing purposes in today's world really comes down to that, if you. Just make a couple good things. Success can come to you, and then people do it and they give up because it's hard, it's difficult. But the secret to social media and building content and building a brand today is there's really no secret. If you work hard and make lots of content and make good content, and make it in this authentic way that people connect with then your brand will find success. It's an automatic that the algorithm will find you your customer base. And it's so simple, but I think people over complicate it, leaders over complicate it, and all they got to do is break it down a little bit and they'll start to see the growth that they've been dreaming of, that they've been hoping for. Tim 5:40 We talk about that trust triangle, and I talk about it constantly on the show here. You know it's it's the presence of logic and authenticity and empathy. And when you talk about good content, or when we're dealing with a leadership brand, and we need to take somebody who's not necessarily interested in being a social thought leader, but they need to be a thought leader in an organization. You need to connect with people on things that they're interested in and more they're interested in you and who you are. You've taught me that that, like that authenticity piece is so important. And then from the logic piece, the consistency and getting out there and getting in volume and whatnot. And then really that stuff that resonates with people. When you know you're with a creator, that the stuff they're doing just really brings some positive feeling and positive addition to your life. How important that is. So I guess what I would say is, what gets in their way, what's the thing that they think is important that really isn't? Jared 6:43 I’ve seen pretty much everything, and I think what people forget about when they're trying to build a brand is that the people that are buying their products are regular people. They want to see it working in their lives. They want to see that service or product doing what you say it's going to do. And what brands and leaders get caught up on in our era is this idea that everything has to be made picture perfect. And you see so many of the brands that were built in the millennial era starting to fall apart and starting to not do well and not get the reach. And the reason is, is they haven't adopted the ability to make content quick enough they haven't adopted the ability to go out and show off an authentic part of a business, and the audiences today are not able to resonate with that in any way. And I'm a very analytical person. I like looking at the data and the stats and the watch time doesn't lie. So I like to say this, if you go out and use a 4k professional camera, hire a great videographer. They come in and make a video, and they post it, and you look at the average watch time you're from everything I've seen going to be sitting around six seconds average watch time on the average commercial piece of content. If you take your phone out and record something happening at your business that day, showcasing anything. It could be the people in the lunchroom having a birthday party celebration. It could be your manufacturing process, whatever it is on a phone, and make that post. Do it a decent edit on it, in cap cut, or whatever your editing app software is, and post it. Your average watch time is going to be between eight and 10 seconds. So six seconds, professional video, eight seconds to 10 seconds with an iPhone shooting authentic content. And all that platforms want, all that marketing wants today is attention. So looking at those two things, imperfect, 10 seconds, perfect six seconds and the perfect one cost 10 times the amount. That's where leaders and businesses are getting in their way today. They they're looking for perfection. For perfection equals less attention and less watch time, and we want more watch time, so we have to find out ways to do that, and ways to get leaders to start to look at the process in a slightly different lights so that they can start to achieve the watch time and success that they want for their brands. Tim 9:06 It’s funny because as you were speaking, I started thinking about the whole return to office movement and the work from home friction that a lot of places see. And you know, we know that one of the things that you lose when you go to a remote or a hybrid workplace is that you don't have that regular touch point with people. Crossing them in the hall, seeing them without even speaking to them, having a chat about your dog when you're putting the dishes away in the in the lunchroom, or whatever that is. And that makes sense to me that the volume is so important, or the frequency is so important, because that's one of the things that reinforces a relationship. Now I know for creators that I've met, we've got Tim and Renee, who've been on the show. They're thru-hikers. They've done a lot of these extended hiking programs, and they're going to be joining myself and TransRockies in Moab for the Moab Run the Rocks, so I'm going to meet them for the first time in person there. But long before I interviewed them, I was following them over COVID. And it was the frequency by which, even though they're hiking, that I could get to know them. And I felt by the time I talked to them, I remember I felt like I was talking to an old friend. I've had that experience, albeit briefly. I sat next to somebody on the plane heading out to BC, and they said, Oh, you're that, you're that guy who's, who's on that podcast, right? You do leadership or something. And I was, look, I'm not talking about myself as some sort of celebrity, but it was like it was an amazing thing how quickly they wanted to tell me their life story, right? That trust was already built. And so this is not a small thing, even for people that will never perhaps want to be an online creator. They just want to be a leader. They just want to get people around them and build trust. This frequency message is important. Jared 10:53 I call it the touch point cycle. So take your example of getting recognized for the first time on your trip over. You put out a whole bunch of content. You put out a whole bunch of feelers everywhere, online, through your website, through your blog, through your podcast, through LinkedIn, wherever it is. And people see it multiple times. They start to get to know you. They start to get to know your brand. But they're not going to initially, and we'll talk about this a little later. They're not going to initially say, Tim, I want to work with you. Or maybe they don't even need to work with you. Maybe you're going to be someone they know. But at the end of the day, as they get to know you and know your brand, when the timing's right, when they're either going to tell their friend about you or they need your services, then they're going to buy from you. And that's that's another thing that leaders and business owners today make the mistake with they really think that when they have a product or service that they think is great, and everyone thinks their product or service is the best thing out there, they think that everyone's ready to buy that day. So if we put out something, I people are going to come right away, the classic return on investment discussion. You spend $1 you get two back. And what I try to do is get leaders and individuals to understand that you have to think about it just slightly differently. Create a touch point cycle. Create a brand. Validate that brand, create a whole bunch of touch points in a circle, and when the timing's right, you're going to capture that customer, you're going to capture that lifetime value. And it's a struggle because very, very few, very few, a small, I would say, under 2% of leaders are thinking long term lifetime value rather than ROI. And that's what we want to try to change the conversation too. Tim 12:41 Help us understand, when a person comes to you, what type of state do they come in, what type of question or ask are they typically coming with before they're informed about what's the right thing to do, or what's your method, what's the type of need you see? Jared 12:57 Yeah, if I was to take the typical business that comes and has a discussion with me, they're usually starting to make social media content, doing it on an inconsistent basis. They do some traditional marketing, still putting some stuff out there to create their brand, doing it in a very professional, pristine way, but un-unified between their website to their social to their traditional campaign. Everything's looking a little bit different. Nothing's brought together yet and and a lot of times they're still fighting to get validated. They want more followers. They want things like that. And I have to break them down. I have to say, Okay, we're throwing all of that out the window. We're not going to care about likes, comments, follows none of that. We're going to start from the basics and then go through a step by step process that's going to take them from a very disjointed, non-focused marketing approach to a very focused marketing approach that can go after what they actually want, which is sales for their product or service. Tim 13:59 Before we get into that process, you're going to share a little bit with us. Why is this a thing? Why do people make this mistake? What's the misconception here? Jared 14:09 If you look at attention today, it's very clear. The data is very clear that attention is online and it's on social media. So the watch time on Tiktok and Instagram alone, not including even Facebook. If you're looking at it, we're talking hours of people's attention today, and that's now not designated towards newspapers. That's not designated even towards driving and seeing billboards on the side of the road, definitely not TV, other than through sports programs. So there's nowhere for people to market effectively anymore, other than through digital and people are still dedicating so much time and energy towards looking cool in that legacy aspect through some of those traditional means. And I'm not saying they can't work. What I'm saying is that's no longer where the bulk of attention is. So the reason that everyone needs to consider this specifically for the next five to ten years, is if you're looking to grow your business, you want to put your marketing dollars where the attention is, and stop worrying about things that are more about creating that brand legacy for yourself than doing something that's actually going to translate to results. So that's why I want more people to think about this, and why they should think about this, because it's just where the attention is. Tim 15:30 If we think about the title of your book, “If You Sell, You Lose,” right selling and that traditional, you know, print or broadcast advertising mindset, which is all about, you know, pitch the benefits, tell them why you're unique, all of those things, very, very different from when you talk about this touch point cycle, which is, establish a relationship, establish some trust. You know, really, how do you become the subconscious thought in that person's mind when they're approaching an issue, not because of the benefits they think they're going to get out of you, but because of who they know you are. Am I getting close? Is this? Jared 16:07 Yeah, and I think, I think at the end of the day, all that, what we're all looking for with that, is for a brand to have enough awareness in someone's subconscious mind that when the purchasing decision needs to be made when the timing is right. They want to purchase your product, or they already feel like they know you. That's what we're all trying to achieve. It doesn't matter what business you run, all you're looking for is to try to be the choice when the timing is right for your customer, and the means that we have today to market are much more effective in finding that customer quicker, without dealing with what I call the needle in the haystack effect, where you're just throwing stuff out there and hoping that it finds the right person. And because of that, we can actually be a lot more effective with the same budget today than we could even 10 years ago. And that's what we all that's all what we all want. Now we just have to execute it. Tim 17:01 There's so many parallels here, because we can talk customers and when they're ready to buy. We can also talk about employees and when they have an issue, or when they need some direction, are they going to come and Are you their first port of call? Not because of authority, not because of anything like that, but because they they have trust, right? They are going to take your your your feedback, or they're seeking it. So, so much here. All right, so people come with this misconception about, you know that it has to be shiny. It has to be a shotgun approach. It has to be it's all about likes and clicks and all of these things. How do you guide them out of this? Jared 17:40 Well, the first thing I do is I talk about removing vanity metrics from the way that you judge your campaigns. So vanity metrics, for me, are likes, follows, comments, those types of things, because the amount of followers you have, the amount of likes that you get, does not affect the purchasing decision of somebody that needs your product. So it's not that they don't matter. It's that if you judge your content based on engagement alone, and engagement typically comes from your followers, from the people that already trust you. Doesn't come from outside of that. It's something that we've learned over the last couple years is engagement comes from the people that already love you. So if you're trying to build a brand, and you haven't done it yet, you're still trying to validate, then you should have no engagement anyways, that's why it's a metric that doesn't matter. That's why that's one that we put off to the side. So first thing, more than anything, what I'm worried about is that we start to look at the metrics that matter. And the metrics that matter are very simple, average watch time, so the amount that somebody's watching a piece of content that you create, photo or video, we look at impressions, the general impressions, because impressions and views are standard to how many people are seeing the touch points. And if we want more people to see our customers, we want as many touch points and impressions as possible. That's how we grow. And if we look at average watch time, and it's going up over time, and if we look at impressions, and it's going up over time, and I'm saying month to month, we're not talking week to week, then what we are doing in the marketing department, as a leader, guiding our organization, is we're doing the right thing in terms of building a modern brand, because we're starting to hold attention longer. We're in the right direction. And that's it. That's all we're trying to look at from the start. And if we can do that, if we can change our theory with that, then we can start to go and make the right marketing decisions and start to make content that works in today's world. Tim 19:41 It’s interesting. You talk about vanity metrics, we talk about likes and whatnot. What's the purpose of the like and the click and all of these readily available sources of data? It's not about whether or not it's effective. It's about keeping people on that platform. It's the gamification of your social time. But it has little to nothing to do with that, holding the attention and building trust, and really that relationship, building that, figuring out what your market needs and whatnot. So it's interesting to think how much a like, a thumbs up can betray you. Jared 20:18 The question that I get asked all the time. The real simple question that every business owner asks is, how do we beat the algorithm? How do we find a way to achieve success in today's algorithm? And I like to tell everyone that the algorithm is no secret. Instagram makes it public. The algorithm is only looking for two things. Number one, the algorithm is looking for, will the audience watch the video longer? Why? Because all of these platforms want to serve ads to their audience, and the longer you can keep someone on the platform, the longer they're going to be able to serve ads to them. So that's, that's a common sense. The second one, which is the vanity metrics, is, will that audience engage? But an engagement is not what people think. An engagement is a click. It is a link in bio click and then, yeah, there's still comments, likes, shares, saves, all of the other metrics. But it's not as simple as just a like, so that's why I say they matter, but it's secondary, first to watch time and then to creating an audience that trusts you, that actually wants to engage. Because the fact of the matter is this, you can create an audience that's going to watch every single video that you ever post and they never like or engage with it. Tim 21:34 Yeah, that's right. They're not there when it matters, in a sense. Jared 21:38 Yeah, and the algorithm doesn't care if the algorithm sees that person wants to watch every piece of your content, and they're still going to look at your website, and they're looking at your profile, they're engaging with you, and the algorithm is going to keep pushing your content to them. So that's how you create success, by only worrying about those two things that the algorithm wants. And this is universal across every platform. It doesn't matter which one it is. All that matters is watch time and then secondary, are they going to potentially engage with you over time? That's all you got to remember. Tim 22:09 It's kind of like saying, Are you getting a smile, a nice smile and a nod from somebody, or are they coming to you when they have a problem? There's a very big difference between social engagement and business engagement, or leadership engagement, or, you know, sort of organizational buy-in. Cool, all right, so watch time, impressions, using those to make market decisions. You know, it's funny when people come with that question about beating the algorithm. I remember a year ago, you said this to me again. It's like, don't worry about the algorithm. And at the time, I was thinking, you know, the algorithm that is my problem, or I would say is many people's problem, is the math, not that the app is doing, but that we're doing that stops us from creating and stops us from being open, and stops us from being okay with raw, dogging our our content out there into the world, right? Rather than having it to be perfect. It's all that doubt and whatnot. That's the algorithm up here that we should be worried about, because that's when you say that's gonna that's gonna stop us from that frequency and that openness that might be required. Jared 23:13 We've chatted about this plenty of times. I mean, oftentimes leaders or brand creators get in their own way. They're worried about their own personal appearance, and I must say, after posting 5000 videos in the last three years across platforms, across different mediums, what you think that people are going to see in the video is the absolute opposite of what they actually see. So you might think that they're going to see the double chin or whatever you got going on in that moment. But what they're actually seeing is what service, what value you're offering. And people don't have the attention span today when they're scrolling on eight second, nine second scrolls to worry about an appearance or something not perfect. What they want to know and they want to connect with you is on an emotional level, on a storytelling level, or when you're solving problems, and that's my three pillars of value. And if you can do those things, taking the rest out of the equation and not worrying about what you feel the content is, you're going to be able to make more content, and you're going to see success. Tim 24:17 Even if you're not making content again, if we go back to that leadership analogy, if you're focused on being clear around your emotion, the story and the problem that you're solving, you're going to connect with more people more deeply. And that has to be a goal, whether it's in real world or online. When I talk to people about the amount of effort that I put into LinkedIn and Instagram and things like this, and I'm not even, I would say, on the top end of how much effort people put in, I get stories back. They tried it and it didn't work, and they and they lost heart, and they were disappointed, and they gave up. You know, what are some of the disappointments that you you see that have people failing? Jared 24:57 Yeah, I see one thing happen all the time. And with any platform that I have had success on, I've had to post for roughly 90 to 120 days straight, two or three times a day in order to see success. But, the amazing thing about it is that every single time, all the platforms around that 90 day mark, if you do it consistently and do it well, magic happens. It pops. So what I like to tell people is you have to stick to it. You can't give up in the process. And what I see, or the biggest disappointment I see, with clients, is they go for 50 days, 45 days, they're doing good. They're making their posts a day. They're doing really well and getting their content and value out, and then they're not seeing those that the value come back immediately. So they give up, or something happens, or they get busy, and they can't follow through and get to that magic threshold, which I would say is 90 days for the win, and it's happened every time. It's a secret, it's a trade secret. I think that a lot of creators know, but the average business owner or leader does not. So it's it's not it's not even that long. It's 90 days. But for some reason, everyone seems to give up in that 60 day mark. And all I want leaders to do, and business owners to do is stick to it and stick to the process, and you'll see the success for your brand Tim 26:26 And focus on the right expressions of success. As you said, it's, you know, it's watch time. It's not, it's not likes. Keep up with it and observe those, those metrics you talked about earlier. Jared 26:38 Just, yeah, just create value. Look at look at the average watch time. Every single time you're seeing that it's increasing. And if you're telling stories, engaging motion and solving problems, again, those three pillars that I talk about over and over again, you will see success in your content, and you'll see that average time start to increase. It doesn't mean you're not going to fail, Tim. We've been there. It doesn't mean that the first 20 pieces of content you make aren't going to do horribly. The point I'm trying to make is, if you stick to it and get to that magic 90 days on the platform of your choice, then what you're going to end up seeing is you're going to start to see one or two videos, one or two photo posts start to pop, and then you feel great because you see it working, and then that's the small win that keeps things rolling. But very few times do I see people get to that point they give up before that, and then it's kind of like a waste of time. So you have to commit to that 90 days no matter what. If you're listening to this and want to try it. And I mean, if I say one thing, just commit, commit to the process, and you'll see success. Tim 27:46 You really clarified something for me there. I'm even still stuck on, well, we got to think about watch time first and stuff. And really the very first metric that we got to be concerned about is there's 90 check boxes on the calendar, and has there been a piece of content every day for 90 days solid? And you've got that consistency, before we worry about anything else, make it to the 90 and then start considering. So that, for me, is a little, is a little light bulb moment going on here. And I imagine you have that experience a lot with people that you're helping them get over this hump of what they think it is to to develop a social following. When you see a light bulb go on in somebody's eyes. Does that do it for you? Or what about this? Work really sings to your heart, Jared? Jared 28:39 When a leader switches from thinking about marketing and building a brand on a traditional, classic ROI basis, which is basically $1 spent $2 reward, just basic ROI. And they flip the switch, and they start thinking of things, as I like to say it as the lifetime value proposition. And so what you're thinking of essentially, what that means is you spend $1 but you get $20 back, but you have to wait five years for that, because the lifetime value of the customer, whatever it is for your business, is what the reward is going to be. So if you can change that, and you could flip that switch, one to two to then one to 20, you start to think of every piece of content you make differently, because it's no longer about trying to get an instant reward for every single thing you produce, and you start to actually create value for your audience and for building your brand. And it's just this magic little switch that as soon as you do it, you'll start to see the results. But if you still think classically, which is, again, what 99% of business owners do, is you just struggle. You struggle to get past that 90 days that I just talked about in the previous segment. You struggle to find ways to make content where you're not selling. And I should touch on this just a little bit. I mean, at the end of the day, we've talked about my book, “If You Sell, You Lose,” the original idea of the title came from the fact that at the time, everyone was starting to skip over content that had high sales content in it. And if you think about yourself, anyone listening, can think about how they scroll through social or how they scroll through Google. Majority of people, they see an ad, it's a quick flick right through unless it matters to them in that moment, if you're on Google, you go straight through the ads to the organic search results, and that skipping of content is lowering your average watch time. And if you lower your average watch time, you're not going to see success. So it's an easy formula to think about. If you can start thinking in terms of long term value and capturing the lifetime value of a customer, you're going to be able to not make sales related content and not kick yourself in the foot when you're going about starting to start the process. And that's what gets me going, when I see that switch go off, and then content starts to come out with that value related process in it. It's magical, because it's so much better. It's night and day, and your brand and your customers can see it. So that keeps me going. That keeps me, me excited about creating these transformations. Tim 31:30 Yeah, and so in that, and you've given us a lot to think about so far, but if you had a blueprint that you were going to lay down on somebody, what would it look like? Jared 31:41 Well, first of all, number one, if we're going through the process, is you have to feel good about your brand before you start. You have to feel good about committing to that 90 day process. Number one, feel good about your brand. Usually that means you unify your brand, so your website, your social media, your Google Maps, optimization, everything about your brand across platforms, including your print documentation, is exactly where you want it to. Tim 32:08 Feels like the real deal. Jared 32:09 The real deal. Then, then you're ready, because I don't want you to spend a single dollar, not one until you're ready to commit to the 90 days. And you don't want to make too many changes to your brand in that process. You want to commit and go after it. Tim 32:22 It's like, look at what I made, you know. Jared 32:24 Exactly, so that's number one. Number two, as part of the process is execute that cycle that I talk about, the touch point cycle. So start to make so much content, start to practice, start to create the value. And create that cycle. The more times you get to the same customer when you're doing your boosts, when you're talking about making your content and getting out organic reach, the more times you're going to have a chance to find that customer when the timing's right, because you're not going to see success until your customer starts to see you in a long period of time, feel good about your brand and then execute when the timing's right. So execute the cycle. Start making content with that commitment to 90 days. Then as soon as that's done, it's about looking for the small wins to keep your motivation up. So number three, look for the small wins. Try, you said one earlier in the conversation, you said you're on the plane to BC, and someone said, “You're that podcast guy.” I can't count how many times I'm walking around and someone says, you're the guy on Instagram, or you're the creative photographer you took the photo of the blue jay in Canada. And all of those moments, for me are, are those light bulb moments where you know it's working, and there may not be a ton of of results from that, but you know that everything you're doing is working with those small, small wins. After that you want to create and correct as fast as possible. So creating correct, for me is a term that I used in my book. It's a whole chapter dedicated to it. And essentially, what it means is just trial and error. But for me, it's simpler than that. When you're looking at your metrics, on your on your content, you're only looking at that average watch time and a little bit of the engagement, as we talked about, and that's it. So you look at it, you see it. Now you forget about that content. That contents gone a mistake. I see is business owners and leaders, when they have that first success, they are constantly looking at it and analyzing it and and breaking it down. And it's weeks on end they're like, did you, did you see that one video I got? They got 50,000 views. Why did lightning strike? Why did lightning strike, and then they obsess about it. That is not going to help you make more content to succeed. So look at it, analyze it, forget about it. Start making new because I want you to dedicate every minute to making more content and less time analyzing after that initial view. So be quick. Be very efficient with how you look at your metrics when you're creating and correcting. After that, when you're starting to go through the process of making the success. I always set the blueprint for every business across the board to spend between 2% to 5% on marketing. That's the general spend across business industry. It's backed by a lot of data, and I'll find, and I'll be willing to bet, that a lot of people listening to this, when they do the math on how much they spend on marketing or how much they spend on Instagram boost compared to how much they make, they're not even close to the 2% mark, let alone the 5% mark. So the 2% to 5% mark is designed for you to spend the money required to replace clients and bring in new clients or customers to your brand that are going to bring that lifetime value to the table. And after that, number five, as we're going through this process, is actually find out what the lifetime value of your customers is. Now, I never say this is number one, even though some people say, why am I not figuring out the lifetime value at the beginning? It's because when you're starting to do a new marketing process and you're starting to bring in new customers with these small wins after your your 90 day process, then when you see the magic start to happen, it's a new customer than you've never had before very often. So sometimes it opens up, sometimes it's your typical customer, don't get me wrong, but you're bringing in new people that you've never experienced in your brand before, and their lifetime value may not match what it is now. So you're going to have a blend of what that lifetime value is, and then figure it out. Figure out exactly, based on the customers you're bringing in, how much they're going to spend on your product or service over their lifetime. And with that data, you come to my magic number, which is spend 5% on marketing to acquire a client based on their lifetime value. So if the lifetime value of a customer is them buying $100 chimney cleaning service, you should spend about $5 for every lead that you're bringing in, but 5% of that 100. But if the lifetime value of your customer is $10,000 then your customer acquisition for every client can be up to $500 to achieve that, and it's a big number, because on most platforms today, the cost per conversion is somewhere between $50 to $200 depending on industry. So there's a lot of room to play in there with your marketing budget. And if you have a high lifetime value, if you're selling a service at a very, very high price point, you have room to acquire that customer, specifically talking to real estate agents yourself as a leadership coach, and anyone that has a higher ticket item, we want to make sure that you're spending 5% of the lifetime value to acquire a new customer. And then afterwards, I always like to say, I always come back to the value tree. So when I look at my my value triangle, when I look at my three things, solve problems, create emotion, and tell stories. If you can find a way to do the value last and always make sure you're coming back to creating and correcting, finding what the value for the customer is creating and correcting, finding what the value is coming coming up with that cycle you can't you get into a system that you feel Like you're winning every single day you post something. Like I give you an example, not my major pages, but on near me, Victoria, the last couple days, we posted eight times in one day, and in that eighth, post, we got 160,000 views and 3200 shares within the local community. So that's after years of creating content every single day, multiple times a day, but when you do that, and you feel those numbers come in on a base level, you get excited, and you know you're making a difference. And that's what you're going to do with this blueprint for your brands. Tim 39:16 I think that's great. There was something else that, as you were speaking there, you you told me years ago, and when you're going through this validate and feel good about your brand piece, what would you say is the relationship to asking sort of permission or asking too many people what they think about your brand or about your content, especially people up close and personal who aren't doing it themselves. I feel, that feels like a trap to me sometimes, because you know, often, if you're worried about being… of getting people's approval, it can really put the brakes on. Jared 40:05 Well, with anything in marketing, obviously, there's industries out there that have to have compliance on some level, and they want to get each piece of content checked for legal reasons, whatever, whatever the case might be. And I understand that, but the less touch touches there is on each piece of content, the less revisions you have, the less resources you're going to spend on it, and the more resources you're going to have to spend to make more content. And I guess I should touch on what that means. I guess the quality versus quantity debate that everyone seems to get caught up on. So I mean, let's go this way, quantity-quality, there is debates on social media both directions. Some people say one, some people say the other, and oftentimes, people that I work with have tried both. They've done a lot of quantity, but it's been really bad, and they've done some really, really refined stuff, been really good. The secret to quality versus quantity is you actually need both to succeed. So there's no one or the other. There's no debate here. You need both. You need lots and lots of content, you need to train the algorithm of who is your customer so they can retarget your content to them and help you build organically a little bit. And then number two is you, you just have to find a way to make good content still, you need it to have those pillars of value in it. And that doesn't mean use a good camera, like I said earlier, it just means make good content and that takes practice, but once you create that good content and can do it quickly and effectively, then it even amplifies everything else that I've talked about with doing it for 90 days or longer. The Magic really takes hold at that point in time. And yeah, it's, it's when you find that one piece of content that works, then duplicate it like give her, start making more, start doing it again and again and again, and you'll see success. Tim 42:18 Don't stress out about how to make lightning strike, but, you know, just use it as a kickoff. And you know, you were thinking square, so just forget about that no. Go and make the next piece. Make the next piece follow that vein until it plays out. Jared 42:35 The biggest thing I can tell your audience from my secret to creating multiple brands with 10s of 1000s of followers, is… Tim 42:44 Millions of followers, right? Jared 42:46 With millions, each of my brands has had success over multiple niches. So we're talking from photography to wildlife to local content, multiple niches with the products that I do is, is, I'll give you an example. With my wildlife page. There was a point in time where I posted 200 reels in a 10 day period. So I was 20 reels a day, and in that period I gained 60,000 followers. So anyone listening to this that thinks 200 reels in in 10 days, that's, that's crazy, that's impossible. Well, I sat down and I edited them, I got them ready to go, and I made that post every single like they were all ready to go, and then I just launched them. And there's no harm done. There’s no loss of followers. You're training the algorithm, you're creating a ton of content. It was all great, and there's a reward for that. And so, so don't be scared of that. Don't be scared of creating at that level. There's almost no downside to producing more. And when the arguments come in for it, the easiest one to explain is a lot of misconceptions are that you'll train your audience to not follow you or follow your content. You might make them a little annoyed at the amount, but what we've learned is the algorithm won't show content to your audience if they think your audience isn't going to watch it or might unfollow you. So even if you post 20 times in a day, then it might not show the 20th post to your audience member for another 30 days. So it's not showing all 20 posts to them on the same day. It's utilizing and showing it to each individual based on what their comfort level is with your brand. That's why you can produce so much and increase your chances at organic reach by posting on. Tim 44:38 One and 200 points of data for the for the thing to learn from helps it work, right, in a sense? Jared 44:48 Yes, it helps the algorithm retarget your content to people that are going to follow you and and get attached to your brand. And that's, that's where most brands don't get to that, that point where it can train the algorithm, so. Tim 45:03 Awesome. All right, if somebody is going to take away one thing from what you've offered today, if you have a wish for the listener right now, what state do you hope they are able to reach by the end of listening to us? Jared 45:18 I think with leaders and marketers today, the one thing to remember across all of history and all of business is marketing has always been the exact same. Nothing's changed. And this is what hasn't changed. Value is always going to equal value. So if you can connect emotionally with your audience, solve a problem for them, or tell them a story that they engage with those three pillars of value, you are going to build an audience and build a brand that's able to sell your product or service. That is never going to change. It doesn't matter if social media disappears tomorrow. It doesn't matter what you do, if you can connect with your audience on one of those three pillars, hopefully all three, but at least one, then you're going to succeed. And that's that's it. And if you write that on the wall, value is always going to equal value, and that's never going to change. It's easier to make marketing decisions when you're looking at buying that commercial video that maybe isn't going to do any of the three pillars. You're going to be able to make better decisions by recognizing that that's not going to change from a market. Tim 46:22 And avoid the snake oil I would imagine, right? Jared 46:25 Avoid, yeah, really avoid the shiny objects. Because when you see a shiny object, when you see a hack, a shortcut that someone is pitching to you, I can tell you right now that there's no shortcuts. To build my first photography page, it was 1000 posts in 365 days, close to three posts a day, learning from every single one on what works, getting better at your craft, getting better at how you're engaging emotion, solving problems, telling stories. And eventually I got to the point where I could do two or three in each video and watch time was going up, and it blows up from there. So it's sticking the course and really understanding that you have to do the work and there is no shortcut. Any shortcut you take today is probably going to set you back from a marketing standpoint, indefinitely, years, months, years, every time you make one of those decisions. Tim 47:17 Haste makes waste. All right, let's get on to hearing from our last guest. So we're talking here to Amreesh Khanna. So we're going to listen to this little clip where Amreesh asks about your relationship with your reflections on your own leadership. Amreesh 47:33 What is it that you could do or change in how you reflect upon yourself as a leader, to reject perfection, change your perspective on failure and success that would help you be better at what you do today, and have that influence on the people and the purpose that you lead with? Jared 47:54 Yeah, sure. Thanks Amreesh for the question. I think for myself, I struggle with some of the even the concepts that I talk about. I struggle internally a lot of times with trying to not always do the things that I love and sometimes focus on the things that I don't love as much. And what I'm saying by that is I really, I love what I do. I love, I love creating content, but sometimes I get caught up in trying to only do the things I love and I put the things that will help me build and grow as a leader off to the side. And what I need to do is I need to find a way to reprioritize, bring some of that back and create a balance between doing what I love and also focusing on the business. And that'll help me in all my relationships, from my clients to staff members, etc., finding that focus and and realizing you can't have it all. Tim 48:46 Yeah, I had a coach once say to me, it's more important to be consistent than it is to feel good. And I was like, you know, when it comes down to it, yeah, you're not wrong. There are things that we have to be consistent with whether or not it's our favorite thing in the moment. But all right, great answer. As part of this tradition, you get to lob a question that you've considered into the next mystery guest, and we're not quite sure who that's going to be yet, as always. So what eclectic leadership perspective would you like to weigh in on one of your issues? What would be the question? Jared 49:23 I'm going to go with, screen time. So I'm going to say, let's talk screen time. I challenge you to look at your screen time on your phone, if you're comfortable, share your screen time with the audience, and then let us know what you're doing to manage it, if anything, at this current time. Tim 49:39 Cool. Love it. Great challenge. Okay, as we wrap up here, thanks very much for taking the time. I hope people are as happy with this conversation as I have been with all of those times we've happily washed dishes and scrubbed dried gravy off of roasters. It's really something to see the success you've had in this space, and see all of the people that are that are interested in collaborating with you, and all of the big brands that are now coming coming to you for guidance. And so if people want to reach out, or you want them to get involved in something, how can they connect with you? How can they experience Jared VanderMeer? Jared 50:23 Yeah, I would say to reach out through one of my platforms, most likely Instagram or Tiktok. It is for the modern creator. That is your phone book, that is your contact list. So when people reach out to me through one of those platforms, it's usually easiest to manage, because it's where we do spend our lot of our work time. So through my Jared VanderMeer Photography page or Wild dot VanderMeer Wildlife page are the easiest ways to reach out and send me a message. And I'll always find it. Tim 50:53 All right, we'll put those deets in the show notes. And as I say, you know, man, great to have you here and I and I can't wait for people to listen through this. So. Jared 51:03 Thanks, Tim, yeah, I can't wait to talk business over dishes again soon. Tim 51:08 That sounds great. Tim 51:11 Thank you so much for listening to Sweet on Leadership. If you found today's podcast valuable, consider visiting our website and signing up for the companion newsletter. You can find the link in the show notes. If like us, you think it's important to bring new ideas and skills into the practice of leadership, please give us a positive rating and review on Apple podcasts. This helps us spread the word to other committed leaders, and you can spread the word too by sharing this with your friends, teams and colleagues. Thanks again for listening, and be sure to tune in in two weeks time for another episode of Sweet on Leadership. In the meantime, I'm your host. Tim Sweet, encouraging you to keep on leading. Comments are closed.
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