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TEAM WORK EXCELLENCE
TEAM WORK EXCELLENCE
Episode Summary: In this episode, outdoor adventurers Tim Beissinger and Renee Miller, known as the “Thru Hikers,” dive into their transformative journey from academia to the trail. They share stories of how they re-prioritized their lives to pursue hiking, including Renee’s incredible achievement of completing the Oregon section of the Pacific Crest Trail in a record 14 days and Tim’s memorable solo hike around the Tahoe Rim Trail. Along the way, they reflect on the mental and physical challenges of such feats, the unexpected influence they've had on others, and how hiking opened new doors in both their personal and professional lives.
Episode Notes
In this episode, outdoor adventurers Tim Beissinger and Renee Miller, known as the “Thruhikers,” dive into their transformative journey from academia to the trail. They share stories of how they re-prioritized their lives to pursue hiking, including Renee’s incredible achievement of completing the Oregon section of the Pacific Crest Trail in a record 14 days and Tim’s memorable solo hike around the Tahoe Rim Trail. Along the way, they reflect on the mental and physical challenges of such feats, the unexpected influence they've had on others, and how hiking opened new doors in both their personal and professional lives. Tim and Renee emphasize that making room for big goals sometimes means stepping away from traditional career paths and taking the leap into the unknown. They also talk about the concept of "the trail provides," explaining how nature often teaches lessons of resourcefulness, teamwork, and resilience. They encourage listeners to follow their own paths, embrace unconventional choices, and make time for passions that may not fit the mould of societal expectations. With practical tips on overcoming challenges and advice for those seeking balance between their goals and careers, they offer an inspiring call to action for anyone feeling stuck in a routine. Listeners can follow their journey on social media and dive deeper into their insights with their new book, *A Guide to Life on the Trail*. About Tim Beissinger and Renee Miller Renee Miller and Tim Beissinger, @thruhikers, love going on outdoor adventures by foot, bike, canoe, or any other non-motorized transport. In 2021, they thruhiked the Continental Divide Trail: 3,000 miles from Mexico to Canada. They have also thruhiked the Pacific Crest Trail from Mexico to Canada and hiked approximately 1,000 miles around Germany. They have backpacked all over the USA, bike toured in Europe and South America, and have both completed an Ironman. They love to cook and eat. They live in Mountain View, California. And then a more recent update is that Renee recently achieved an impressive feat by completing a thru-hike of the Pacific Crest Trail across Oregon in just 14 days and 14 hours—shattering the previous record by 1.5 days, all while contending with record-breaking temperatures! Resources discussed in this episode: Contact Tim Sweet | Team Work Excellence: Contact Tim Beissinger and Renee Miller | Thruhikers:
Transcript: Tim Beissinger: 00:01 It's compelling to want to mimic the path that's worked for others, but everybody's individual, and it can be more powerful to follow the path that makes sense for yourself. That's one thing that that I think can be a fear for folks when they're thinking, what do they do next? And they want to do the right thing instead of wanting to do what makes the most sense for them. Renee Miller: 00:20 If you want to take a break from your job and hike for six months, if that's right for you and that's what you want to do, just do it, and the trail will provide. Life will provide and you'll be a better person and learn a lot and have a great story to tell because of it. Tim Sweet 00:35 I'd like to ask you some questions. Do you consider yourself the kind of person that gets things done? Are you able to take a vision and transform that into action? Are you able to align others towards that vision and get them moving to create something truly remarkable? If any of these describe you, then you, my friend, are a leader, and this show is all about and all for you. I'm Tim Sweet, and I'd like to welcome you to Episode 42 of the Sweet on Leadership podcast. Well, welcome back to Sweet on Leadership today. We're going to explore exploration. We're going to talk to two explorers about the journeys that they're taking and the journeys that all of us are able to take, what's open to us. And sometimes, you know, we may have these things at our fingertips, and we don't actually realize that we can pick them up and enjoy them. And I'm really happy to welcome Renee Miller and Tim Beissinger. They're a dynamic couple that are known on social media as the Thruhikers, and when I think of people that are just gripping and ripping it, that are just living life to the fullest, I can't help but have your faces come into my mind. So thank you so much Tim and Renee for joining me here today. Tim Beissinger 01:52 Thank you. It's great to be here. Renee Miller 01:54 Yea, Thank you. Tim Sweet 01:56 For those of you that don't know Tim and Renee and we're going to give you ways that you can follow them, because it's exciting. They have conquered some of the most challenging wilderness trails in the world, from the Pacific Crest Trail to the Continental Divide Trail, and most recently, Renee, you smashed the record for the Oregon section of the PCT the Pacific Coast Trail in just 14 days and 14 hours. So congratulations for that. Not to be outdone, Tim then answered with his own solo event around the Tahoe Rim Trail. So, you know, it's so much fun to watch you guys do this. Tim Beissinger 02:31 Just to interrupt for a second, I was outdone. I just walked in a circle around a lake at a normal amount of time. Renee set a record. So I was outdone. No question there. Tim Sweet 02:41 And when we talk about Renee that accomplishment, I mean that was, as you said, unsupported. And I was watching one of your posts the other day. You were sharing these stats, which I thought were just amazing. You had started with, was it a 38 pound pack, and it ended up being 12 pounds at the end of it, and you were pulling in these major hours, like, well over or what was it? 180 hours walked, and, you know, pulling in these major distances. So talk to us just a little bit about that. What's the size of something like that for you. Renee Miller 03:12 Yeah. I mean, it was probably one of the hardest things I've done, both physically and mentally. A lot of fun though, at the same time. Tim Sweet 03:19 Yeah, I found you when you were originally setting out on the transcontinental. And I remember that first episode where you were filtering water out of a cattle trough, and it was gross. And I was like, oh, man, these are my type of people. And I can imagine when we look at how many people have followed you since then, 2.1 million on TikTok, 364,000 on Instagram, 868,000 on YouTube. You are a major part of people's weeks. They take a moment to live vicariously through you and be inspired by you. And so much of it is just again, it's like this different relationship with the world in front of us. Does it feel strange to have that reputation and that meaning in people's lives? Tim Beissinger 04:10 Yeah, it does, really. It all started because we like to be outdoors, exploring, and our first thruhike was the Pacific Crest Trail. That's 2650 miles. We didn't make videos, we didn't document it. We just loved it, so we wanted to do it again. And we were playing around with videos, and people started watching, and that's been exciting, but also it is… it is strange to know that we're influencing how people approach the outdoors and what folks goals are out there, and we sort of ended up with the voice of authority that we've never quite set out to have, but hopefully we're doing an okay job of it. Tim Sweet 04:49 What's it like for you, Renee, when you bring this into your regular life, into your day job, Renee Miller 04:54 Tim is more of an extrovert. I'm more of an introvert. So you know, starting out, it was more of a challenge for me to put myself out there, but through Tim's encouragement and through the responses we got saying that we are inspiring people to get outside, to live healthier. It's been pretty rewarding. Tim Sweet 05:15 That's awesome. We have a tradition here, where, before we get into the meat of our conversation, I bomb a random question at you from from our previous guest, and this one comes from Erin Ashbacher. So Erin's question was and she didn't know who I was going to be lobbying this at. At the time when you have those big things in life, those big projects, or those big goals, and they're sitting in some shelf getting dusty somewhere. For yourselves, how do you take those big, gnarly goals off the shelf, and actually, you know, starting on them. What's your process? That was her question. How do you handle big stuff, big goals? Tim Beissinger 05:56 Yeah, so the way we've done it in the past is we make room for them, and I'll give an example. But if the big goal is big enough that it needs to push something else out of the way, we push it out of the way. The example is our first through hike of the Pacific Crest Trail. Renee really wanted to do that trail, and I was a new a professor. Renee was an engineer, and we felt like, I felt like there wasn't room to tackle that big project, that big goal of doing the PCT, it was something to put off until we retired. And Renee was persistent and said, No, we're only going to get slower and weaker and like now's the right time to do a hike like this. So why would we wait until we're struggling with health when we're retiring, instead of doing it now when we're 30? And so we quit our jobs. We made room, we took that off the shelf, we put some other stuff on the shelves, which were these jobs that were going quite well, and we tackled the PCT. And I think for me, that was a really hard leap of faith to say, wow, I've got my career going just the way I want it, but it's not going to be the priority right now, but we can figure that out later. And it worked, you know, we did that hike, we came back. We both sort of didn't even hit a speed bump in our career trajectories. And so it was a big learning that we could make room to take something off the shelf and do it without it slowing us down. Tim Sweet 07:29 And if you'd cave to that fear, that idea that it would derail your careers, it would have been a risk that you were mitigating. That wasn't actually a risk. And by the way, you said hike. But how many days was that, quote, unquote, hike? Renee Miller 07:46 Four and a half months. Tim Sweet 07:48 Yeah. There you go. Tim Beissinger 07:49 Yeah. So for that one, we quit our jobs entirely. And you know, my PhD advisor found out that I quit my job as a professor and told me, this was career suicide. What are you doing? He was wrong. It was not career suicide. After the trail, I got a better job as a better professor at a better university, and so it was fine to do that, and we would have missed the opportunity. And like you say, it wasn't a risk, and Renee had the same sort of job situation, Renee Miller 08:18 Yeah, yep, I was able to get a job after our you know, a job is a job, and a career is long term. And we've both had successful, very successful careers, even though we've had to quit a job here or there. Tim Sweet 08:34 Yea, I mean, Tim was saying that, and that you were the driving force behind that. So before it was clear to Tim, or before you went in on faith, Tim, what was that vision that just made it a must do. That was the path of least resistance for you. Renee Miller 08:54 Yeah, I think it was wanting to tackle something unknown. You know, I don't like to follow the normal path of that society tells me to follow. That's kind of always been a trait that I've had, and I think it was a big adventure, a big unknown adventure. And, you know, I loved the outdoors, and thought, Why? Why not? Tim Sweet 09:19 If I was to ask you, in your mind at that point, if you can, if you can, cast back to that, what was the risk of not doing it? Had you not done it, what would have likely happened that would be the source of regret, or, like, where do you think you would have been if you had not done it? Renee Miller 09:37 I don't know where. Yeah, that is a good question. It has definitely changed our lives. And so, yeah, I mean maybe still just living a normal life, yeah. Tim Sweet 09:47 So it'd be stuck in the mundane, that average existence, yeah. And we talk about, you know, what's average for everybody? May not, you know, help us be who we truly need to be in the moment. So you've done these amazing things. Tell me a little bit about what some of the most memorable times on the trail have been for you, as you've gone out and tackled these various challenges put in front of yourself. Tim Beissinger 10:12 Oh gosh. I mean, the dangerous times are always memorable. Those are embarrassing too, because there have been a few times we've gotten ourselves into into trouble. We've never been injured out there, but, but we've come close. So, you know, one time, we were trying to cross the Olympic Peninsula, and there was a lot of snow, and we were walking for miles on a really steep slope on the side of snow and ice, and I slipped and fell, and a tree caught me and I partially dislocated my shoulder. It does that. It's a skateboarding accident from when I was young. So, so anyway, it was okay, but I smashed into this tree, and Renee was watching, for all she knew, I was dead, and my shoulder was kind of dislocated, so for all I knew, I was terribly injured, and turned out we were fine. But that's memorable, because it's embarrassing. We shouldn't have done that. We ended up turning around and going back and finding a different route, much safer route, around those mountains. Had the snow not been there, it would have been great. But that's one thing that stands out for me, for sure. Renee Miller 11:21 And I think another thing is just the people you meet, you think you're going into a wilderness experience, but you always bump into other people out there hiking, and there's a lot of cool, interesting people out hiking or in the trails along the way that you never would have had the experience to interact with had you not done a trip like this. Tim Beissinger 11:44 Anybody who's spending four months on a long hike is likely to have an interesting background that got them there. And so we've had some really great conversations and met some really good friends out there on the trail. Tim Sweet 11:57 I remember you did a post that was, tell who's the thruhiker by what tent they use. And I remember watching that and being like, I got it mostly right, but I was thinking, you know, somebody has a tent that has a generator and blows up or something. It's like, you know, cool. So, at this point, we find that this is a big part of your life. You are having new opportunities and new aspects of your ability to impact and influence people open up. So you've done these amazing things. You've set goals for yourself, you've made big life changes in order to make them possible, and you've made that space for them, as you talked about you're both professionals, and you're influencing and leading other people. What would be a more commonplace example of where you see a person's inability to make space for something get in their way. Tim Beissinger 12:55 I think jobs as people are picking their career path, it's really tempting to want to do the right thing. So I was an academic for a long time before I've now switched over to industry, but in the academic world, it's really set. If you want to be a professor, first you do a PhD, then you do a postdoc, then you might do another postdoc, then, if you're lucky, you get a job as the professor. And it doesn't have to go that way. You could go from PhD to a company, to a postdoc to a professor, or PhD to a, you know, whatever, to straight to a postdoc, and then switch over to industry and build some chops there and come back and professor or or maybe be a professor for a little bit and decide to switch over. I think people have a fear of getting off of that PhD postdoc Professor path, because all of the examples they look to are doing exactly that, and it's compelling to want to mimic the path that's worked for others, but everybody's individual, and it can be more powerful to follow the path that makes sense for yourself. That's one thing that that I think can be a fear for folks when they're thinking, what do they do next? And they want to do the right thing instead of wanting to do what makes the most sense for them. Tim Sweet 14:11 Renee, how would you add on to that? Renee Miller 14:13 You get so caught up into your daily lives and the tasks that you you know, you go to work and have to get all these tasks done and come home and have responsibilities at home, but yeah, you kind of forget about yourself. And you know what about that professional engineering license that would be really good for my career? Oh, I don't have time for that, because I'm busy working and, yeah, just talking with people and reminding them to prioritize themselves and their resumes, and it'll probably be good for their company as well to get those certifications. Yeah. Tim Beissinger 14:52 I've witnessed that from Renee. She, as a young engineer, was always making time for a professional society that really had no bearing on your day to day job, but it was so big for networking and meeting folks. Renee Miller 15:09 And staying current on your industry. Yeah, yeah. Tim Sweet 15:13 So many of the people that listen are engineers or stem folks. You know, it's a huge part of my practice, working with engineers and geologists and, you know, scientists, chemists, etc, often when I help them move through things, not to make this about me, but we can lean on their engineering jobs, you know, because you can design and engineer the life you want, and the outcome is always, or usually, a product of, well, what's the design? And I use this video, if you may have seen it. It's probably 15, maybe 20 years old now, but a group from MIT had designed a bike with square wheels that could roll as long as the road was a series of ARCs right, the same distance as a side. Now, it wasn't a terribly flexible system, right? But often people, they try to mould themselves to the road, rather than molding the road to themselves. It's such an inefficient way to live, in a sense, because then you end up shaving off the corners, shaving off those sharp bits that make you special and that make you particularly effective, in order to conform, and we have to often realize that we have the ability to change those things. We have things we can leverage and choices we can make. Sorry, to dive into my stuff, but, Tim Beissinger 16:44 No, yeah, it's a great way to put it. Tim Sweet 16:40 Yeah. So the next thing that I would ask you is, when a person tells you they can't do something, what might be a typical response that you would use to open them up to the possibilities that could be in front of them? Tim Beissinger 16:52 Oh, gosh. I've got a lot of experience training graduate students. So that's a typical encounter, is I don't know how to do this, or tell me how to do this. I can't do it. I have a very practical answer. This isn't quite philosophical, but it's just practical. What I always tell them is, you know how to use Google, and the answers are out there. You can figure it out. And I think that attitude of being resourceful and figuring things out is huge. I'm going to get personal. I hope that's okay. When I was a child, my dad had brain cancer, and I had four siblings, so there were five of us total. My mom spent a lot of time taking care of my dad. It was a great upbringing, but it meant I didn't get quite as much attention as I might have if I was an only child and had two fully functional parents. That taught me how to be a little more resourceful. It meant if I wanted to solve a problem, I couldn't just ask my parents to do it. I might do it myself. Or if I wanted to get validation at a school sports outing, it didn't necessarily come from the traditional my parents sitting there on the audience with a tape recorder filming every single event. And that was a good thing that really instilled this attitude of independence and resourcefulness, and I think it's helped me be the person I am today. So, that is what I try to teach my graduate students. Is Google it, ask people questions about how to do things, try and fail. We do a lot of coding in my field. So like, you can write code if it doesn't work, erase it, write it again, and keep doing that 100 times. Tim Sweet 18:29 What is that again? So everybody is… quantitative geneticist. Is that right? Tim Beissinger 18:32 Yeah, that's what I am, a quantitative geneticist. Yeah. There you go. So, so that's my my standard advice when people feel like they can't do something, is they can. They might just have to learn the base. Tim Sweet 18:43 So if confidence isn't in your DNA, you would say confidence isn't in your DNA yet. Tim Beissinger 18:48 I'd say, Google it. Tim Sweet 18:49 We're going to code it in there and Google it. There you go. So Renee, would you have any experiences when you have people that come to you feeling stuck or feeling like they can't? Renee Miller 19:03 In addition to what Tim said, I think teamwork is a huge thing, and don't feel like you're stuck by yourself trying to figure it out. Get help and talk with the people around you. And more brains are better than one at solving problems 100% Tim Sweet 19:22 I'm going to call an audible here and talk a little bit about one of your episodes that I really liked when you were doing the Tahoe Rim Trail, you shared that you were having some issues with feet problems and that you were breaking your own rules. I heard you say Renee usually kept you on the straight and narrow when you were hiking together, and so the two of you formed that kind of partnership where you know you're thinking about different things, and that teamwork was felt literally by you on that trip. Like here's something that I may not think about in the moment, but Renee keeps me honest. Tim Beissinger 20:10 Yeah, yeah, I don't think I used that phrase the straight and narrow. I did something, but I didn't say that. Tim Sweet 20:06 No, you didn't say it that way. Sorry. I am paraphrasing, but Tim Beissinger 20:08 But really close just keeps me on the straight and narrows, but, but no, that's absolutely true. When we're hiking together, we know, here I'm talking in the “we.” Because together, we know that doing too many miles too soon is a recipe for injury, and honestly, it's not so much of a we it's really Renee reminding us that over and over again. And so there I was doing a solo hike. We almost always hiked together, but I did the Tahoe Rim Trail alone, without the wisdom of Renee, and I injured myself right away. It was four days in, and I had a busted Shin, and had to take five days off, and so that was a reminder that we're we're better together than alone. I probably offer some stuff to our joint partnership, also when we're out on a hike. Renee Miller 21:00 Yes, definitely. Tim Beissinger 21:01 The wisdom part is definitely coming from Renee. Tim Sweet 21:04 Well, let's hit the other side, then Renee. What does Tim offer? Renee Miller 21:06 Well, he's a good cook, so I definitely eat better when he's around. Tim Beissinger 21:15 So you keep you keep it nourished, and keep the color in your cheeks, in a sense. Renee Miller 21:19 Yep, yep. But yeah, I think we're really good as a team, and he definitely likes to push us. You know, sometimes I come up with these crazy ideas, but Tim helps make sure we follow through with these crazy ideas and so it's a really a cool team that we have together, and it's good to do it on our own, and work on all sides of ourselves as well. And remember what our strengths and weaknesses. Tim Sweet 21:49 I think that comes through in so many of your posts. So I think that that's a great thing that people can expect to take away if they were to follow you, as we sort of wrap up here. I guess what I would say is this is we talk about all of these things, and I can't do your accomplishments and the amount of effort you put into these things justice. I can't in this amount of time, I really would encourage people to look out for you and follow you. But when you think to the people that are listening here, and many of them are are engaged with us, because we bring such unique people like yourselves onto it, what's that point that you want them to leave with today. What is that wish that you have for them? Tim Beissinger 22:34 I think, it's a phrase. The phrase is the trail provides, and that's a lesson that you learn on a long hike, which is when you really need something, you get it from the trail. There's direct examples we have of of needing a cell phone cable that we forgot to bring, and that exact cell phone cable was just lying on the road. But the more important ones are the indirect examples, like when that I mentioned earlier, I fell down the mountain and hit a tree while the trail provided an alternate route around that mountain. It was there. There was a mapped bike path that we were able to walk instead. It wasn't what we had been aiming for, but it was provided by the trail. Or there's been times that we're running low on water, and a water source that we hadn't expected based on our maps showed up and it was in excess. There's tons of examples like that, and then they come back to life. And in normal life, when you're opening your mind to not just following one direct, clear path, but letting your life provide opportunities, you can follow those opportunities and have a lot of fun with them. An example from our life is our videos that we make. We never planned on being large internet influencers. We just happened to post some videos that got a lot of views, and then we ran with it, and it's been a really fun, really fulfilling project that we do. Life provides, the trail provides, I think that's a really important lesson that I've learned, and hopefully others can learn it too. Tim Sweet 24:09 Yeah, just open yourself up to all of those doors that are in front of you and be observant. Okay, great. Renee. Renee Miller 24:16 Just expanding on that. Don't be afraid to follow your own path if you know you don't have to follow what society tells you if you want to, you know, take a break from your job and hike for six months. If that's right for you, and that's what you want to do, just do it, and the trail will provide, life will provide and you'll be a better person and learn a lot and have a great story to tell because of it. Tim Sweet 24:46 It's really interesting when you think about that, when we follow the path that might be traditional or laid out in front of us, whether that is the career arc of a professor or whether that is putting your job on hold to try something adventurous, the standard path that's in front of us is not there by accident. But part of that is it's not built on individual experiences. It's built on sort of the common experience. And if we know anything about looking at the averages of groups, it tends to trend towards the lowest common denominator. It tends to trend towards the path that's been the safest for the most amount of people, which means for half the population, that could actually be curtailing your potential. Gallup recently came out with a figure that said 10% of the population actually have the makeup, personality, skills, work style, expression of genius, all of these things to be leaders. And I think it's actually a heck of a lot lower than that, because there's many people that aren't given the opportunity to lead. Could be socioeconomic, it could be gender, it could be any myriad of other things, race or whatnot, that kept them out of that. So it's somewhere between 4% and 6% I would say typically, is what, where you get these natural died in the wool leaders, and I define that by it's people that are willing to take risks, especially when it comes to owning other people's results, and would potentially damage themselves, but never do it anyway else, because that's how they're built. I think for those people, your words are going to ring like a clarion call in the wilderness. All right, thank you so much for taking the time to join me. We're going to do just a couple of little wrap up exercises. The first is, I would like you to ponder on a question that you'd like to ask the next guest in line, and I will bring that up at the beginning of the interview. Tim Beissinger 26:54 Well, I do have a question. We talked at the beginning about how to take things off the shelf, and my advice was, make room for them, take them off and push something else out. And so my question for the next guest is, if you have to do that, if you need to clear up room in your schedule, what is one thing that you're doing that you would or want to get out that you want to stop doing. We all have too many things to do and not enough time. So what would you cut? And it doesn't have to be like, Oh, I'd stop tying my shoes. It doesn't have to be that specific, but maybe just some idea about what you'd get rid of, if you could get rid of anything without consequences. Tim Sweet 27:42 Yeah, do you know where your easy cut is? Well, I've enjoyed following you for the last it's got to be two years. It feels like easily, because it was covid when you started, right? Tim Beissinger 27:53 Yeah, if you were watching us filter from cow troughs, it's been three years, three years. Tim Sweet 27:57 Oh my gosh, time flies. I think people are going to be really interested in your in your story, and you've got so much to teach in such a wonderful way. Where can people find you? Where would you like them to look for you? Tim Beissinger 28:09 For folks who are wanting to get outdoors more, we have a brand new book out through hikers, A Guide to Life on the trail, and our goal with that book was to make trips more enjoyable. So we took everything we've learned from 10,000 plus we haven't added it up in a while, but maybe 12 or 13,000 miles of exploring the outdoors, all of our learnings to have the most enjoyable trips that we can have, and put them in a book, along with a bunch of backpacking recipes for dehydrated food. So so that's one great place for people to look for us. Renee Miller 28:41 Otherwise, we're at through hikers on Tiktok, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat, awesome. Tim Sweet 28:48 We’re going to put all of that information in the shownotes. As people engage with you. What type of energy are you really excited to bring to your channel next? Renee Miller 28:58 We love being outdoors, and all of our stuff is about hiking and the outdoors, and it's positive educational content about how to be safe and enjoy yourself in the outdoors and food and cooking. Tim Sweet 29:14 And food and cooking right on. So, I want to say a big thank you for making this happen. I know that it was a bit of a route to get here, but you're not opposed to that. You guys set long routes all the time. So yeah, Tim Beissinger 29:26 Thank you for having us. It's been really a lot of fun to talk about all this stuff. It's not the usual podcast, or not the usual podcast for us at least. Which is all about what's the most dangerous animal you've seen, which those are good too. But this was a fun exploration of other topics. Tim Sweet 29:44 It’s podcasts like yours that helps people lead more enriched lives and inspires people by showing them look what's possible. And why not, you know? And it's just a matter of going to Google, in a sense, figuring it out, watching shows like yours, to get some tips, and then just, you know, getting on the trail. And I really appreciate that coming from you guys. You know for myself, getting back into hiking, it's a real source of energy and inspiration. So thank you. Tim Beissinger 30:17 Thank you. Renee Miller 30:18 Thank you. Tim Sweet 30:21 Thank you so much for listening to Sweet on Leadership. If you found today's podcast valuable, consider visiting our website and signing up for the companion newsletter. You can find the link in the show notes. If, like us, you think it's important to bring new ideas and skills into the practice of leadership, please give us a positive rating and review on Apple podcasts. This helps us spread the word to other committed leaders, and you can spread the word, too, by sharing this with your friends, teams, and colleagues. Thanks again for listening, and be sure to tune in in two weeks' time for another episode of Sweet on Leadership. In the meantime, I'm your host, Tim Sweet, encouraging you to keep on leading. Comments are closed.
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