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TEAM WORK EXCELLENCE
TEAM WORK EXCELLENCE
Episode Summary: Join Tim Sweet as he welcomes Julie Freedman Smith for an insightful discussion on leadership, parenting, and navigating life's pivotal moments. Julie, a renowned parenting expert, shares her wisdom on guiding children without limiting them and how adults can re-evaluate their paths to find true fulfillment. Tune in for a conversation that spans from childhood influences to adult leadership dynamics.
Episode Notes
In this engaging episode of Sweet on Leadership, host Tim Sweet sits down with Julie Freedman Smith, a seasoned parenting expert, for a thought-provoking conversation on parenting and leadership. Julie shares important insights on how parents can support their children in finding their own paths while balancing guidance and empathy. They discuss the importance of understanding the unique perspectives of children and how parents can embrace courage and flexibility while parenting. Julie and Tim explore the idea that children operate on a different "currency" than adults, valuing friendship and good feelings over time and achievement. They emphasize the necessity of reassessing parental expectations and focusing on short-term progress rather than long-term outcomes. Additionally, they draw parallels between parenting and leadership, discussing how adults can avoid limiting themselves to specific roles or activities based on early career choices or societal expectations. This episode is packed with practical advice and is a must-listen for anyone looking to enhance their parenting skills and leadership qualities, fostering growth, adaptability, and genuine fulfillment in both personal and professional realms. About Julie Freedman Smith Julie Freedman Smith is the founder of JFS Parent Education and co-founder of Parent Mentor Now. With over two decades of experience guiding parents across North America, she is dedicated to transforming family dynamics by fostering safe, respectful communication that builds lasting connections. As an author, podcast host, parenting expert, and mother of two, Julie understands the thrilling yet challenging journey of raising children in today's complex world. Her empathetic and practical approach empowers parents to support their children's growth and development while maintaining a positive family dynamic. Through practical strategies and open communication, she helps parents navigate the stresses and joys of parenting, ensuring both they and their children thrive. Julie's mission is to equip parents with the tools they need to create harmonious and resilient family environments, enabling them to handle the ups and downs of parenting with confidence and grace. Resources discussed in this episode: Contact Tim Sweet | Team Work Excellence: Contact Julie Freedman Smith | Parent Mentor Now: Transcript: Julie 00:01 So, I was just talking to a family this week about a child who's playing one level up. So, he's the youngest kid on the game. He's being picked on all the time and then he's taking that and he's picking on everybody else in his class because that's what it looks like. And so we can just take a step back, sit in the discomfort, this means I might not know the entire path for my child. And can I just be here? Can I be with this child right now with what they need from me right now, and see where we get to next? Tim 00:34 Do you rely on others to set a vision and then give them what they need so that they can achieve something they never would be able to do on their own? Whether or not you formally lead a team. If this sounds like you, then you, my friend, are the definition of a leader. And this show is all about bringing you new insights from real people that you've never been exposed to. So, you can grow and increase your impact on the world and feel more fulfilled while you're doing it. Tim 01:01 I'm Tim Sweet. And I'm glad you could join us for episode 34. Tim 01:08 Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Sweet on Leadership podcast. Joining me once again, this will be your seventh visit? Seventh visit is, Julie Freedman Smith. Together, we form some sort of a superhero duo, yet to be named. We've been talking off-camera about things that are going on in our lives, we decided to hit record. And today we're going to take you into a subject that I think both of us seem to be orbiting. Now and again. It really came out for me as being important that I saw some of my clients pigeonholing themselves. And really, you know, we're dealing with the fact that they've always thought they needed to be something. I was telling you about this and you see a similar thing can happen with parents and children. But before we get into all that, let's introduce Julie and Julie other than being a great friend who gives me wonderful chocolates, on occasion. Why don't you tell everybody who you are and what you do? Julie 02:08 Sure. Hi, everybody. My name is Julie Freedman Smith and I have a company called JFS Parent Education. People asked me, What does JFS stand for? It stands for Julie Freedman Smith, which seems to go over their head. But that's okay. My website is Parent Mentor now, and really, I'm about helping parents to create the family harmony that you've always wanted, without having to change who you are. And so, I've been friends with Tim for ages. In fact, Tim, I wanted to congratulate you, because I think this is podcast numbers 30, or like 34– Tim 02:42 34. Julie 02:43 We're a year in, eh? Tim 02:45 Yeah, but if we take away the very first four, which was a four-part special that you and I did about casting off some of the things that are no longer helpful in our life bridge after COVID Sitting right around episode 30. So this is in many ways, this is our 30th episode. But technically, Episode 34. Julie 3:03 That's pretty great. And a year of this talking to so many different people, I loved listening to your guests and learning these tiny little smidgens from each of them. So, congratulations. Tim 03:14 Well, I appreciate that. I mean, it has been something to try to maintain that consistency and that cadence of every two weeks we're putting out an episode. But it really has been a chance to learn from all of these really interesting people. And again, the format of the show is to look for inspiration for people who find themselves in leadership positions and leadership situations and really wanting to bring their best selves to work, whether that's working for others, or, you know, managing a business, or leading on a sports team, or any of those things. What can we learn from one another, and there's so much wisdom out there that will never be published in a book, so many great stories that just can't make it anywhere else. And so when I meet great and interesting people, I want to bring them onto the show and just really open my community up to them, and so it's been exciting. Today, though, we're going to be talking about this issue of pigeonholing who we are and what we can do. And maybe by way of a little bit of a background here, of late, say in the last six months, it's been happening my entire career, or at least as long as I've been running a coaching company, that when I'm helping leaders and owners get fluency over how they want to work and how to make their work more meaningful and more fun because I'm a big believer that anybody can move their job into areas that are more rewarding so that you spend a lot of time at work that you're doing things that really fit, really feel like an expression of you and what you're passionate about. But increasingly, when we're doing that exploration, or at least it's been more noticeable to me of late. We run into these shoulds. Throughout these 30 episodes, you've heard me talk a lot about shoulding all over yourself. But when people have actually chosen vocations because of what they should be, rather than what they are, and this can work for some people who properly identify, but for others, they may be, you know, a year, five years, 10 years, 20 years into a career, all the while doing something that while they may be good at it, it really doesn't speak to them, it is purely a job. And so, understanding why that happened led us to an interesting place. And often that was they received feedback very early on, about who they should be, and why they should be that thing. And it made sense, the math made sense back then. And so, you know, when I brought this up to you, it was as a dad, also saying, hey, what happens when we become the person shoulding all of our kids? But rather than me go down that path, do you see that happening with parents and children? Has that been your experience? Okay, so take us in. Julie 06:10 All the time. So, my sense of this is, for many people, parenting is the most important job that they will do, or certainly way up there in the things that they are doing. And also the thing at which they are least educated. So, they don't have a clue what they're doing. And they want to do a fantastic job right away. And so whenever we're in this situation, when we find an answer, or when we find what we think is an answer, we glom on to it, we hold on to it. And one of the ways we do that is figuring out our kids. So, when our kids are little, you know, we're just trying to figure them out. And suddenly our child takes to something, they take to an activity, and it's an activity that they love. And they might love it because we're clapping for them to do it, they might love it because who they were at that moment that they did it, it was fun and cool. And we go ah they love that, they love hockey, or they're going to be a dancer, or this is my little reader or whatever it is. And so we start to define the child by their action. And so, typically, when our kids are young, they actually think we know what we're talking about. And so if we, as parents are saying, you're a hockey player, you love hockey, and we get in there, and we put them into hockey. And we get on the board of the Hockey Association, and we coach and we are the team mom, and we are the manager, and we are all these things and the whole family's identity is around this particular activity. The child as they go along might not like that activity anymore. And yet, it's kind of what's expected of them and so they do it. So, I see that a lot. And I often see it where a parent will come to me and say this, my child wants to quit this, but this is their thing. They were gonna go to college on a scholarship, we've poured so much money into this. And so just this idea of, okay, so there's a corner in the pathway, how do we help to turn that corner? And do we even give our kids the opportunity to tell us like, some kids even too scared to say that they're not involved in it? So, that's one way that I see this happening. And it's completely with the best of intentions. This idea of I figured this piece out, I'm gonna ride with this particular thing and it might be around education, academics, sports, arts, it could be around a lot of different areas. So, that's one of the ways that I see it play out. Tim 08:43 And I mean, you and I've had this conversation in a bunch of different areas. I mean, listeners will know that my three kids are all dancers. We're a dance family. And this is one of those areas that I remember early on. I think you and I had a conversation years ago, years and years ago, like, really early on in our relationship, this would have been 2015, or somewhere in there, 2016. And you had said something along the lines of, if the child is a dancer, and when they're asked what they are, I'm a dancer, what do you do, I dance and the as is our society when people say what do you do? You don't say well I walk a dog three times a week and I hike in the mountains and I love to bake bread you say I'm you know, massage therapist, I'm whatever. You know, that you had said to me? If the child's when asked says what do you do? I'm a dancer or I'm a hockey player or I'm going you know, I'm a competitive swimmer or I'm in debate club. Yeah, or whatever that is. If that falls away because of a situation, because of injury or because they don't make the grade or whatnot. And that's all they have, is that identity. It's what they do, is who they are, not who they are and they happen to do some stuff. They're lost, lost. And I remember seeing this in small scale when my daughter was injured, and it threw her off her dance career for two years, and in many ways, not a bad thing, because she had to consider what else she was. Although it was, she was in grade 10. And it was quite traumatic. Because suddenly that was who she was. That's how she filled her days. My youngest son walked away from it at 11. Still want to dance? He’s like, no way. So, he's figuring out his world, his oyster, my middle boy, though, is planning on being a professional dancer. Luckily, he seems to be interested in many things, although all in the arts. So, we'll see, you know, but I do remember you saying that to me early on. Julie 10:49 I was wise back then. Tim 10:51 You are wise now. Wisenhiemer, but it was, you know, it was meaningful, then. And we have children that can be influenced in this way. Well, we know we have a situation in North America overprescribing kids when it comes to extracurricular activities, and we tend to focus them into one. And it's always about the drive for excellence. Julie 11:14 Right. We are also children, even as adults, right? Like, Tim 11:17 Yeah, that was where I was going to go. Julie 11:18 Like, we’re still doing that. it was. Tim 11:19 Yeah, that's right. And so for certain personality types, nothing can be done by half. So, if you're going to do it, it's how do I not just experience something, but I've got to turn it into this like major hobby, it can't be that I can just enjoy, this my latest thing, I can't just enjoy drinking Yerba Mate. No Se Llama, Canmore, Alberta, support them, they're really nice people. But I've got to know everything about it. I've got to, like, educate myself. And I've got to be, you know what I mean? It just can't be simple. It's got to be full on, you know, what are the health benefits? What are the cautions? And what's the right temperature to drink it at? And what's the tradition? And, you know, just can't be, you want to drink some stuff, that's going to be a little different. Nope. You know, so. Okay, so we have that as children. And then, as you say, we have that in ourselves this drive, to do it. So, talk to me a little bit about the pivotal moments, when that can really be formed. When in a person's experience, do we start to really listen to these things? Can the voices from the outside, I'm sure they're always important, but are there moments that are more profound than others, or timing, that's sponge-like? Julie 12:34 As kids, we're very dependent on everything we're being fed, from our parents, literally and figuratively. And then often in that, you know, adolescent place we might push away, so we might actively go against whatever the prescribed thing is. I think also another time where that happens, you and I haven't talked about this, but is this, as we're moving into adulthood, the initial part of being an adult is role-playing being an adult. So, I'm going to get X, Y and Z certification, I'm going to buy adult-looking clothes, I'm going to get married, or I'm going to move into an apartment or I'm gonna buy a house or, I mean, who's buying a house nowadays? But there are those kinds of play-acting, what adults do and– Tim 13:26 What you call swim to the center of the pool, right? In a sense, they're pushing off us in they’re trying some things out. Julie 13:26 Yeah, and we're all doing those things. And we tend to do that until somewhere around age 30 something, where we suddenly go, I'm doing all these adult things, I still do not feel like an adult, I'm not even sure that what I'm doing is something I like, but I'm not sure how to get out of it. Or am I going to look stupid for getting out of it? Or you know, and that is another time where we kind of take that left turn of like, oh, it could be different? And if this is what adulting is really about, how do I do it in a way that makes sense for me? Instead of playing the role of adults, how am I going to be an adult, that's really true to myself? So, I think there's some kind of a pivot point in that mid-30s that comes along, as well. Tim 14:20 I remember, in my experience, it was almost like a, you start to focus on something a little bit more, and you have to cast off certain hobbies, you have to cast off, even in some cases, friends and certain social groups. And it's like, I have to pick my lane in a way, I guess is how it– Julie 14:37 or I want to also, there is this element of I want to do this, like, I want to spend time doing what I really want to be doing if I can, or maybe the question is, how do I spend time doing more of what I really want to be doing? I have these obligations, I've got to meet those things. I've got to meet the needs. I've got to earn the money that I need and, you know, fulfill these obligations and how do I carve that piece of my life that's really fulfilling. Tim 15:04 That's a very interesting point. Because I remember as a boy transition, when I stopped playing with toys, in a sense, like sort of gave up the toys, and I was more interested in sports and girls and music and things like this. And then that happened again, going into university is like another ratchet on the maturity spectrum, I'll use mature lightly. And then you know, you make certain life choices, and it's, and you kind of have to throw your lot in with a certain path. And around 30, there's another one where, as you say, where it's kind of like, you hit that 30 mark, and you kind of, you know you're through your 20s, you know, that it's serious now like you're… I actually remember when we had our first child, I remember the very moment after she was born and I've had this conversation with a lot of fathers, where it's just like a weight is on and suddenly it's no longer about you. You are very clearly the protector, the whatever that is, I don't know what the I'm not saying it's a cultural role, though it might be but I think it's actually genetic, where we're like, these are my responsibility now and it's like a totally different role. And you thought you knew what it was all the way up to the moment you held that child. And then you're like, Oh, I get it now. And you kind of it's scary. And it's like, this is what responsibility feels like, kind of thing. On that note, when you go through all of those, I've noticed, especially around the 30s, maybe in the 25s as well, when I'm working with my clients, younger clients, some made a decision, and others went through it more passively. The decision happened to them, in a sense, they went with the flow for good or for bad, whereas others were kind of like a mid-midlife crisis. I don't know, but it was very active. Julie 16:58 They were steered into their role. Yep. Tim 17:01 So, when that happens, we have some people that approach this with a high degree of risk and adventure. And, um, you use the term discomfort at times and others that do not. So, can we talk a little bit about that role of when we face these milestones of what would you say, further defining our identity? There's this element of are you passive? Or are you highly active? And what does that look like? We're dealing with two things here. One is the adults impression they leave on the child. Later on in life, there's our own questioning of ourself and our path. And perhaps let's go back to the first one and say, when we are helping to form or involved in the forming of a young mind, we can either be passive, or we can be highly active. What would trigger a person to be highly active versus passive? What do you see in parents that allows them to be really relaxed and just kind of go with the flow? And what might happen where a parent needs to intervene or feels they have to steer heavily? Julie 18:11 Part of it is temperament. I don't think it's as easy as well, if you just turned left at the third corner, you would be this kind of a person. And if you kept going, then you became this kind of person. I don't think that's what it is. I do think there's an element of control. I'm very anxious to make sure that my kid is on the right path. I am going to do everything I can to keep them as safe as possible and keep them on this path. So, certainly– Tim 18:35 Because it's my job, my responsibility. Julie 18:38 Yeah, exactly. Which, of course, is impossible. Absolutely impossible. But there is that feeling. So, for some people, that's how they hang on. Some people are like I don't know what to do, so I'm not going to do anything. There's an element of, you know, moderation and all things including moderation. So, the ways that I would say that you can safeguard against doing that pigeonholing is creating some kind of opportunity for conversation and discussion around like, it's the next year to sign your kids up for the thing that they've been doing for the last year. Often towards the end of the year, kids are getting tired of something. And so we're like, do you want to keep doing this? And they're like, no, I don't. And I don't think quitting something when you're having a lousy time at it, is the best time to quit something. I think leaving something when you've had a good time, but you're done with it is more helpful if you have the opportunity to do that. Sometimes we don't have that opportunity, but just checking in and saying, do we want to keep doing this this year? Or do you want to do something different? And so for a lot of parents, I talked to a lot of parents who are like very clear that they want to have one kind of active hobby for their child and one kind of artistic hobby for their child. And so in order to do that they have to choose something but they don't necessarily have to choose the same thing every year. Now we have a lot of sports and music, things where you're in it, if you leave, you're sacrificing the place you have. And you might not get back into that same level. And so there's a lot of pressure. But the thing is, if the kid doesn't want to be there, if they don't like it anymore, then maybe that's okay. Like, maybe it's okay to step away from that thing. And every time we make a choice or a decision, there are consequences that happen, as a result of that. And again, part of our job as parents is to help our kids realise that they have the ability to make choices, and they have to live with the consequences. So, just creating these opportunities, having conversations, instead of just assuming that the child wants to keep going in this. And sometimes it's more than assuming it's like, well, we're in I've already said I'm going to be on the board for next year. So, we're kind of all in this, we just gotta keep going. And the child kind of gets pulled along. Tim 20:58 And even then, that's interesting because I've been there, I've been there where I've, I've made a commitment to a studio or whatnot. But really, just because I've made a commitment that can be undone, you know, but all of that boils back to, it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable for me to have to now back out of a commitment that I made, it's uncomfortable for me to have to consider, what if my child doesn't find the next thing, or is quitting or is letting his team down? Julie 21:29 Letting the team down? Like, this is not about leaving halfway through the year, although that can happen sometimes, too. But this is about before we sign up again. Right? But you're right, there is the what if there's a sitting in the discomfort of if you're not a hockey player, what are you? If you don't play classical guitar, what do you do? Who are you? Tim 21:49 We had our youngest in a rowing club, and he was young, two years younger than they usually let in. But he was big, and he was able to row and he did quite well. He also got picked on. So, we were halfway through the season, when they were just starting to get into looking at competition. And all the, I can’t remember what they were called but anyway, the big regattas and everything, and we pulled him. We were just like, you know what, maybe in two years, but for right now, this is not, the juice is not worth the squeeze on this particular one. Julie 22:16 No, definitely not. That's another issue as well, which is, but my child shows skill, my child showed talent, they're gonna move him up to the next team, they're gonna move her into the next level. Great. But there's a lot of other consequences that come from that that being picked on is one of those things. I was just talking to a family this week about a child who's playing one level up. So, he's the youngest kid on the game. He's being picked on all the time. And then he's taking that and he's picking on everybody else in his class because that's what it looks like. And so yeah, we can just take a step back, I guess, is part of it, take a step back, sit in the discomfort. This means I might not know the entire path for my child. And can I just be here? Can I be with this child right now with what they need from me right now? And see where we get to next? Tim 23:09 And then there's the flip side of this. And now let's get back to the professional. Where i remember 24, I had a run three years of being very well known. Like, well, at least, I was a known chef locally, like I was at the top restaurant in the city at the time. I could have gone with that. I had the opportunity to go to Spain, or Australia, or Japan. And we decided not to and part of that for me was when I really broke it down. I didn't enjoy it. Am I creative and artistic? Yeah, I am. Was I a great cook? I was. Did I get awards? Sure I did. Did I like it? Nope. I didn't, just because you're good at something doesn't mean, that is what you have to do. There were elements of that lifestyle that I really didn't like, I respect other people for being in it. But it wasn't for me. And then I went back to school and got a business degree. And I think that's part of why I do what I do. I know the difference between being happy with what you are in and what you're not. If we flip this on the other side, when we're sitting with ourselves, not our children, and we put ourselves back into that place of how did I get here? And what was the math I did and really have to put in its place the attention we have with who we should be or who our parents were or what we were afforded and how they invested in us. Right? It's hard to undo. But once you undo it can be very, very clear, in that moment where you can really embrace and say, You know what, I really love what I do, or now that I look at it this way, I'm not entirely crazy about what I do. You know, I'm not getting a lot of joy from this. So, what can I do to raise that level of joy, or for this to feel like it's a better fit? Julie 25:04 And sometimes there are a lot more responsibilities at that point, right? Because you still need to be earning the money to support yourself, or to pay your rent, or to support your family or whatever it is. Tim 25:16 All right, so we have, we have these opportunities where we can sit and take these moments to really explore where we are, where our child is, if we were to step back and really state what do we think our expectation is on all of this, where are we may be layering that in, come to terms with what we're afraid of for the child or what, you know, what we really want to land, we can get things to a much more rational position, where we are not emotionalizing everything and layering on so much pressure on ourselves or on the child, that we're causing them to take a lane. Julie 25:57 Yup, and just bring it back to like here, this amount of time, instead of thinking about how this is going to impact their university and what kind of person they're going to become in their 40s. What's happening in the next three months, six months? How do we move forward in that amount of time? Tim 26:15 It's really interesting that you say that, because when we, when as I go through, and I talk to my kids, they have such a different time scale. It couldn't even be down to the fact that I don't feel like I have any friends at this place that I’m at. Or I have a friend and that's why I want to be in it. And their currency is something that's so different than ours, it's not in time and achievement. It's in friendship, it's in good feelings. They're operating on a different currency, rather than, oh well do this so that you can win the next Nobel Peace Prize, or whatnot. Let's shift from the parenting perspective to one that we'll all have, which is, how did we get where we are? And those might not have been little moments, depending on how we were raised. They could have been big blowouts. They could have been unspoken rules. They could have been all sorts of things. But I guess taking that moment for ourselves, where we let ourselves step back and look at the roots of why we have a certain expectation on ourselves. And maybe can we get it down to that, you know, it's almost like, understand the design behind our life that led us here because it wasn't by accident. I mean, this is one thing. It's so funny when I when I work with people, they're never broken. In that sense, when we talk about career, the career is perfectly where it's supposed to be based on everything that's happened up to that point. It's led us here, right? And in here we are. So, what's your thinking about serving that child inside, in a sense, now talking to the adult? Who's having to consider, you know? Julie 27:58 So, I think there is value in going backwards and looking in the rearview mirror and asking how we got here and why we're here. And I think we can get so caught up in all of that, that it's just another form of distracting us from the what do we do now? So, for me a question that I prefer to why I don't like it as a parenting question. And I don't really like it as a question in general, why am I stuck in a job I don't like? Why don't have, why? I like the question, how? How do I take a small step towards where I want to be? Because, as we just talked about, there could be a lot of reasons to stay in this job or to tolerate where you are right now. Because your education has led you to that point. And different education would be expensive. And there are people counting on you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm not saying you should stay there forever. I don't believe in that. And the thing is, if anybody was to take a look at your life career, life timeline and my life timeline, you and I have had so many different jobs in so many different ways. We're very privileged to have that freedom to choose and to ride the waves that came along. That being said, there's nothing to stop us from moving one degree towards that thing we might want to do. It doesn't have to be our career. It could be something we're doing once a month, it could be something we're doing every Saturday morning, it could just be some slight curve in the path that's going to help us to feel better about how we're spending our lives. It's feeding us to be able to continue to do the other stuff. Tim 29:40 Using that analogy. I'm going to layer preemptively into that idea of what we want to do. That is a great question to be asking. Because if we're going to angle towards this idea of true north, is that our true north, or is it a true north that was– is it the true north we would choose, right? And coming to terms with what we want is a really big step because you could be layering in all of these supposed to be’s, on to that, what do I want to do? And it could be going all the way back to where we started, which was, well, I'm a dancer, and therefore what I want has to involve dance. What if it doesn't? What if it is something? So getting right down to that, what do I really want? And is that different than the story I've always told myself? Julie 30:34 Yes, and what don't I want? Tim 30:36 And what don't I want. Julie 30:37 Sometimes it's easier to figure out what you want, when you can be like, I don't know what I want. But I know that I don't want to be doing this. There's one part of this that I don't want. Tim 30:49 I'll put a link, I shared an article recently that I wrote in 2015 called “What Leaders Can Learn from My Blender.” And I have a blender, which I'm in love with, I love my blender, I love my salad spinner. I don't know why they're just two implements that I just dig, shout out Vitamix. Vitamix can clean itself in seconds. If you do it right away. If you don't, it's like some sort of industrial adhesive and you're in there with a brush and a chisel if you're unlucky, or whatever. The point is, in cheffing, we used to say clean as you go. And so that idea of not just saying what we want, but what we don't want. What are we going to let ourselves, what are we no longer going to pursue or be? That's going to be a big part of managing the energy it's going to take towards where we need to go. And coming really to terms with cleaning as we go and say, and it's back to that example you said, when we're 30, we're kind of in this new lane of saying while we're doing this, we're gonna cast off some things. It might be that rejuvenation, again, we might be in this season of literally turning the leaf and like a palm tree shedding its fronds and putting up new shoots, right? We have to go again. And that little cycle of reinvention it's is great. But what true north are we using to decide what these new leaves are going to look like in which way we're going to how many coconuts we're going to be hanging at the end? Julie 32:22 I don't know that you necessarily can know that. I think it’s okay to not know that. Tim 32:25 But can we get closer to a yes? Julie 32:27 Yes, it's pointing the ship slightly closer. I was listening to an interview with Sally Field this morning. And she was talking about, and I hope I can paraphrase this correctly. When we're little, and we're going through hardships or fears, we might knit ourselves a sweater to keep us warm and safe. And we keep wearing that same sweater, even when we're much older than we were in the sweaters too. I'm now taking her analogy and I'm switching it a little bit. But you know, we're wearing that tiny sweater of I should do this, I need to be this person which fit us then but it really doesn't fit us now. And it's cramping our style. And part of it is, take the sweater off. You can figure out what sweater you want to put on next. But take that one off, notice those things. Notice those thoughts that you're telling yourself, notice those stories that you were telling yourself that got you here and served you very well to here. And now, how are you going to start knitting the new sweater to keep you safe in this new way of being you? And part of that is you know, like can I be a little bit more uncomfortable? Because I'm older now and I can handle a little more discomfort? And then, you know, how can we just slightly try something different? It doesn't have to be all or none. We don't have to know exactly where we're going. Because who knows where they're going? I knew exactly where I was going as a child, right up until the time that I didn't get into med school. And then I didn't have a clue where I was going. So, like even if we think we know exactly where we're going. We don't. Tim 34:01 That recognition that “what got you here won't get you there,” was what Marshall Goldsmith always said, right? What got you here is not going to get you there. Because all it's, where you've arrived is now you're on this new cliff face, you're sitting. You're sitting in this in this place where you can see what's possible. But the climb at this point is not going to be what the next thing looks like. You can take certain tools, you can learn certain steps, you can apply certain skills, derisk things perhaps. But if you keep doing it the way that you're doing it, you will not, it won’t amount in change. Because you're just that's what got you here, not what gets you there. So, I think that that's– Julie 34:42 I think we got here. Tim 34:44 I think we got here. A couple of couple of parting thoughts, which I think is good. And I think, you know, that willingness to put ourselves into that. That state of vulnerability and discomfort is really important. Which raises I guess what I would say, a thought that's really coming out for me right now. And I think for me personally, it's going to even help me with my clients, it'll help me with my kids. You bring this up when you're 50, and you're talking to other 50-year-olds about how they're feeling about life, my mental age is 26. I don't know why it just is 26. And we went, we're at dance competition this weekend, and I was going around the table with other parents and said, What's your mental age and people were like, 32, 37, 26, 23. Everybody could tell me who they are in their head. For whatever reason. I don't know why that is. But it's, you know, at a certain point, you look in the mirror, and you're surprised to see this face. Julie 35:37 Absolutely. Or this hair colour, right? We were talking about that? The silver quality of both of our pictures. Tim 35:46 Yeah, silver chin, the understanding that when we're making these leaps, we have to give up comfort, we have to say we're now at a point where we're making a change. And we're at this precipice. When we think of this now, in the parent-child context, the child is the one that's got to live with the consequence. They're on the edge, they're on the, they're ready to make the shift. When the parent or the mentor or whatever comes in, the All-Knowing, all-seeing, been there, done that, do it my way, mentor whatever, comes in over the top and speaks with such certainty. And such absolute, when in reality, our ass does not have to cash these checks. Do you know what I mean? Like we're about to make a decision that this child is going to have to live with maybe into their 30s, 40s, 50s. And I'm just saying to speak with it with such certainty. I would much rather take a moment and say, Wait a minute, picture your child as being in this uncomfortable, uncertain place. Stop for a moment and realise that you're not the only one feeling uncomfortable here. They're putting it up, they're putting up their chips to be risked, in a sense, it's not just us taking the risk. Maybe that's obvious to others. It's sure it's not obvious to me. It hasn't been as I've gone through this. Julie 37:20 Right? And I also think we, you know, we walk a delicate line, because depending on the age of your child, like you're not going to let your two-year-old decide, like, yeah, we have to keep them safe. And we need to meet them where they are. And love them for who they are not what they do, and take them the next step or two down the road. And here's the thing, I mean, we were talking off-camera about this. Every one of these things that's recruiting your child to be a thing is a business. They want your money, and they're trying to get you to sign up. So, that you feel stuck there. Or so you don’t miss out. Tim 38:02 Oh, you're talking about the extracurricular stuff. Sure. Julie 38:05 Yeah, all of the choirs and the hockeys and the dances and all the things. Tim 38:09 They got an angle. Julie 38:10 Yes, they have an angle. And quite frankly, your money will be just as good to them two months down the road, most of these things. So, if you say I have to sign up now because if I don't, you're not gonna let my kid in, there's a good chance that two or three months down the road, you could come in and say, you know what, we made the wrong decision. And we really want to be part of this, we realise what we're missing. And in all likelihood, they're going to take your money. They work for you. Tim 38:44 Sure. And then there's the, you know, I want my child to be successful. And so I want them to go into a certain vocation, and they've always gotten been good at math. So, therefore, they must be an engineer, or something. It's their life. They've got to deal with those consequences. So, I guess what I would say is, as a coach, I want to see my clients love their work, you know, not struggle, like all of those things that are just generally what I want for my clients. And I think as parents, sometimes we are willing to offer advice. But as a coach, I know that I'm not there to see that through. I can be with them, but they're doing the work. It's their lift. It's their choice. Julie 39:30 And we kind of want to see people struggle. Tim 39:32 We do. Julie 39:33 With no struggle, there's no growth. Tim 39:35 100%, what I mean is that I think can sometimes be clouded as a parent, where we don't necessarily know what we're signing the child up for. And a few words spoken from our own baggage of what we should be or whatnot or living vicariously through them or making it about not letting our parents down or not letting, whatever, can program that child in a way that we don't even realise, right? Or may take choice away from them that we don't even realise? And it's not about I mean, I'm not saying everybody should be living a bohemian lifestyle where we're just like, hey, let it rip. Julie 40:14 Well, we're gonna do this in so many ways. Part of it is, I guess the hope is that we're conscious of some of the times that we're doing it. Because we're, I mean, none of us as parents are going to come out of this without making mistakes. Just as no parent, no parent ever does, right? Like, we're gonna mess up our child in some way. So, just getting clear about what we're doing and the direction that we're taking. Some people are gonna listen to us and say, Yeah, screw you. I'm going to still push my child to do this. Great– Tim 40:42 Because it's more important. Julie 40:43 Make a conscious choice. Yeah. Tim 40:45 Yep. Okay, I'm going to do two things here at the end, I'm going to ask if you could leave our listeners with any parting thought or have a wish for them, what would it be? What would you hope for anybody that's stuck with us this far? Julie 41:03 Well, I think it would be my favourite value, or virtue or whatever, which is courage. Courage, courage, courage to sit in the hard stuff to notice the emotions that you're having to not, you know, roll it away, or eat it away, or drink it away? Just to sit in that discomfort and just check in? What are my emotions actually telling me? Yeah. Tim 41:27 And how many of those are my super imposing perhaps? Or– Julie 41:31 Yeah, just like, what is what am I trying to figure out? Tim 41:32 Where are they coming from? Yeah, I love that. Julie 41:36 And how do I move forward? So, I wish for everyone courage, it's my favourite value. I think it's super powerful. What about you? Tim 41:43 So, what do I wish? I hope that, particularly when people are thinking about their own career space, that if they feel that something's not on, if they feel like something's not a fit, to stop and listen to that feeling. It doesn't mean you have to stop the train. You don't have to slam the brakes on. But pay attention to that feeling. And try to articulate it and try to write it down and really discover what's at the basis of that. What is actually bothering us? Because if we don't get down to that, if we're not fluent in the thing that's bothering us, and why, then that can come out in all sorts of negative ways. Whereas, if we can get fluent in it, and understand where it was from, as you say, we can then design for the future, right? We can make a choice, we can understand how that what's influencing that tight knot. And I think then the second part of that is, spare a little thought for understanding when you were having all these moments of discovery and potentially insecurities or whatnot. Kids feel this stuff, too. I make a point at the dance studio, even when kids are eight. I try to talk to them, like human beings, which I still have a responsibility to be an adult, I get that. But what I'm asking what they're doing, I want to talk to them and listen to them as if they're maybe not fully formed. But their thinking, feeling beings with their own view on the world. Because if I hear it through my adult years, I'm not listening. I'm taking my position and processing through it, which has to happen on some level. But the flip side is trying to see what's, get down on your knees and see what the world looks like, from their perspective. And I just think we listen with a fuller heart, or with a more open heart when we do that. Julie 43:41 And courage is also comes from the heart, curl kurage. It's feeling scared and doing it anyway and finding the strength to do it anyway, that comes from love. So yes, the heart is a big part of this whole thing. Tim 43:53 So, we've got one more piece of business. But before we get to that, I want to ask you, if people want to reach out to you, where can they find you? Julie 44:00 Probably the easiest place to connect with me is at my website, parentmentornow.com. You can send me an email through there, you can check out all of my services, you can book a free call with me. All of those things are easy. You can find my book there. Everything's there. So, parentmentornow.com. Tim 44:20 The last piece of business, we are episode 34. Our previous episode was Brent Yogge, who is a section chief with the FBI in technology and counterterrorism and things like this. Excellent. Excellent, excellent, but the tradition of late is to ask every guest to drop a question on the guest after them. So, Brent's question. I'm going to try to paraphrase this a little bit. When you think about individuals, he was talking about individual contributors. But in this case, it could be anybody that's contributing say, to a family or to a, in a job or on the choir or anything that you're involved in. But especially those that are looking out for others in your vocation that could be parents potentially? How do you inspire them to really adopt the mindset and perspective that they are leaders, that they are influencing others, that they are in that position of power? And then how do you encourage them to be just leaders? Or the leaders they want to be? That's his question. And I think it's how do you inspire them to really embrace that idea of leadership? And even if they're not managers, we're not just talking about managers, we're talking about people that are influencing something other than themselves outside of themselves? How do you inspire them to really take that on? If that works in your context? And then once they have that, how do you encourage them to embrace and fully actualize that? So, first of all, to be it, and then to make it there, to see it through? Julie 46:10 Okay, so thanks for not warning me about this beforehand. Tim 46:12 No, it’s fine. Julie 46:15 So, I work very hard at living the life that I speak about. So, I model the life that I encourage for others. And one of those things is I empathise with people and see them for their path that they're walking, not my path that I'm walking. So, I am, I hope that what I do is I check in with them, see them, help them to know that they are not alone in the struggle that they're having. Because more often than not, I've met somebody who feels exactly the same way as they have, they are feeling. And sometimes we feel like we're the only one going through this. And so it's really hard to find the courage to step forward, when we feel like we're not alone, maybe we feel a little less shameful, we can climb out of that shame and step forward. So, just connecting with people seeing them for who they are and building community around them. And then helping them to find, you know, comes back to that how, helping them to find that one step that they can take that feels safe for them to take, that's going to move them out of where they're stuck one little bit, so that they can feel good about that and believe that they can change and then help them to make the next step. Tim 47:42 That it's not this overnight success, everything everywhere all at once. Julie 47:47 I think that's how I do it. Tim 47:48 I don’t know, I would say that that is exactly how you do it, having been on the receiving end of that. So, I think and I think that was a perfect answer, and this is why I love this show. Because it's like this is where we have knowledge coming from you. That, as far as I'm concerned is directly applicable into the life of somebody who's trying to mentor other leaders or bring up their staff, or anything like that. All right, yeah. One last question. Julie 48:11 What's my question? Tim 48:12 What's your question for the next person to put them on the hot seat? Understanding they may not be parents or they may not be whatnot. Let er’ rip? What would you be curious about? Julie 48:24 How did they find the courage to do the hard things? Tim 48:32 Julie Freedman Smith, so many hugs coming your way. Julie 48:35 And right back to you, my friend. Tim 48:37 Okay, I can't wait till we can do this again. Thanks very much for joining us. Julie 48:39 Thank you, so much fun. Tim 48:46 Thank you so much for listening to Sweet on Leadership. If you found today's podcast valuable, consider visiting our website and signing up for the companion newsletter, you can find the link in the show notes. If like us, you think it's important to bring new ideas and skills into the practice of leadership, please give us positive rating and review on Apple Podcasts. This helps us spread the word to other committed leaders. And you can spread the word too, by sharing this with your friends, teams and colleagues. Thanks again for listening. And be sure to tune in in two weeks time for another episode of Sweet on Leadership. In the meantime, I'm your host, Tim Sweet, encouraging you to keep on leading. Comments are closed.
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